System requirements - Building a RetroArch PC

General
#30

Well you can be even more rational and wait until both G3 and S95C come out and hopefully prices would have come down on the 2022 models by then but by all means if you can afford it, buy what you want now, at least sometimes. Life is short and tomorrow is not guaranteed.

Just be sure to do your proper due diligence on these Samsung TVs for gaming and PC use before ultimately pulling the trigger. Based on my listenings and observations over the past decades, there might be a couple gotchas hidden beneath the hype that might make things a bit more annoying than some of the other brands.

I’m talking more UX, bugs, annoyances and other undesirables that remain more in the background.

Things like the lack of support for Dolby Vision and not being able to disable ABL.

Be sure to look at your opportunity costs before pulling the trigger.

For example I was recently looking at some 5K and 6K displays and also 3840 x 2400 displays which I feel might be the ideal resolution for HSM Mega Bezel Reflection Shader because of the Bezel and frame taking up some precious vertical resolution that can result in less than perfect scanline and other rendering anomalies with certain masks and cores.

Alternatively, 8K is actually available if you wanted to try it out and go crazy. There are some 8K LCD Mini-LED offerings from LG and Samsung that might be similar in price or cheaper than some of their OLEDs and they would most likely include similar interface, OS and Gaming features.

SAMSUNG 65-Inch Class Neo QLED 8K QN800A Series - 8K UHD Quantum HDR 32x Smart TV with Alexa Built-in (QN65QN800AFXZA, 2021 Model) https://a.co/d/chSfIYS

LG 65QNED99UPA Alexa Built-in QNED MiniLED 99 Series 65" 8K Smart UHD NanoCell TV (2021) https://a.co/d/cS9I2yG

TCL 65-inch Class 6-Series 8K Mini-LED UHD QLED Dolby Vision HDR Smart Roku TV - 65R648, 2021 model https://a.co/d/aaEqbXY

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Wiser monitor choice for RetroArch Shaders: size & resolution
#31

I’ve been seeing more and more stuff popping up about these Monitors recently. I think there’s a 32" 160Hz miniLED model as well.

General build ideas and discussion.

It seems like it’s here:

I haven’t tried it myself but BGR W-OLED rotated 180° should be RGB.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/13o6b31/we_have_briefly_tested_the_innocn_27m2v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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#32

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/13uki09/tftcentral_nvidia_release_ulmb_2_for_improved/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

6,000 Peak Nits anyone? 2,500 to 3,000 Nits in a 10% Window?

Apparently I’m not the only person who’s thought of this.

HOW TO FIX BLURRY TEXT ON A BGR MONITOR

"If you have a monitor with a BGR sub-pixel layout and have blurry text, there are a couple of workarounds that can help, although they all have their positives and negatives.

1 - If you’re on a Windows computer, enable ClearType. As you can see in the Gigabyte M27Q picture above, ClearType makes text look bolder, especially diagonal lines. However, ClearType doesn’t affect all programs, so you may get blurry text in programs that aren’t affected by it, such as Google Chrome, and even Microsoft’s own Word.

2 - Mount the screen upside down and change the user interface’s orientation in Windows’ display settings. This effectively gives the monitor an RGB layout and fixes text clarity issues related to a BGR layout. However, there are some issues. When the user interface is flipped in Windows’ display settings, it seems to apply some form of V-SYNC even though it’s disabled, and G-SYNC doesn’t work properly as the monitor’s refresh rate remains static. The permanent V-SYNC effect seems to increase the input lag. In the case of the Gigabyte M27Q, it increased from 3.2ms to 15.1ms. We’re not sure what causes these issues; we suspect it has to do with the user interface’s orientation. The pictures below show how text looks like with the screen turned upside down."

Since you’re also need to do work with your setup and you’re already used to a dual screen setup what do you think of these oddities?

Instead of side by side dual screen, they’re basically over and under with no bezel in between.

LG 28MQ750-C 28 Inch SDQHD (2560 x 2880) Nano IPS DualUp Monitor with Tilt/Height/Swivel Stand, DCI-P3 98% (Typ.) HDR10, USB Type-C (90W PD) - Black https://a.co/d/csf4X8N

INNOCN 28 Inch Computer Vertical Monitor 16:18 SDQHD 2560 x 2880p with USB Type C, Height/Pivot Adjustable Stand, Speakers, 98% DCI-P3, HDR 10, Black - 28C1Q https://a.co/d/26rhbHO

…And they have more vertical resolution than a 16:9 4K display while having more than enough horizontal real estate for a proper Slot Mask!

Maybe one of these plus a decent 24" or 27" more traditional 4K 16:9 display or you can keep your current dual setup, maybe get an arm or two that allows you to mount them over/under and/or vertically and one of those 16:18 displays can be your third display so that you can enjoy the best of both worlds without overspending?

The only thing is, do those 16:18 displays check all the other CRT emulation boxes we need in addition to resolution and better pixel density/aspect ratio?

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Sony Megatron Colour Video Monitor
New CRT shader from Guest + CRT Guest Advanced updates
#33

There’s more of a benefit to 4K at sizes larger than 27", where 1440p is probably sufficient. So now I’m debating if I should just replace the dual monitors with a large monitor, but it would need to be 38" to have the same viewable area and even then it wouldn’t be the same in terms of window size/shape, but I could probably make it work for I what I do. :thinking:

Here’s a 42" OLED for $1,000. If burn-in from office tasks wasn’t a concern I’d probably jump on that.

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#34

Another problem is that nearly everything is matte when it comes to monitors. Dough has the Eve Spectrum but it sucks in other ways (it’s edge lit). So maybe a small TV is the best option? The smallest these days is usually 50" which is a bit too big for a monitor… and is this really the state of things in 2023?

Glossy, but $799 for a 27-inch, and it’s an edge-lit display (no FALD).

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#36

LG C2 Series 42-Inch Class OLED evo Smart TV OLED42C2PUA, 2022 - AI-Powered 4K TV, Alexa Built-in https://a.co/d/irTKtxe

LG C3 Series 42-Inch Class OLED evo 4K Processor Smart TV for Gaming with Magic Remote AI-Powered OLED42C3PUA, 2023 with Alexa Built-in https://a.co/d/8S3HowE

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-43-class-qn90c-neo-qled-4k-uhd-smart-tizen-tv/6533842.p?skuId=6533842

SAMSUNG QN43QN90CAFXZA 43 Inch Neo QLED 4K Smart TV 2023 Bundle with 1 YR CPS Enhanced Protection Pack https://a.co/d/c76fHCx

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#37

Greetings @KoKlusz,

Why don’t you click or tap edit, then cut or copy your reply to @Nesguy then paste it over here to avoid going too far off topic in @guest.r’s thread?

You can delete your post from @guest.r’s thread after moving it.

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#38

I am strongly considering the LG C3 since my burn-in fears are probably overblown. However, this guy is advising that I wait until early next year because the quantum dot OLED monitors are on the horizon, which will supposedly put current LG OLED monitors to shame, and as an added bonus are all glossy by design.

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#39

Although the fancy quantum dot OLED monitors will be available next year, they’ll be starting at $1500 for a 27" most likely, and it’ll be 3 years before prices comes down.

It’s down to these two for me, and it really depends on what kind of deals I can find. the INNOCN is going for $720 right now. The C3 seems like a no-brainer purchase at $899.

($600) 32" INNOCN 4K 144Hz Mini LED: https://amzn.to/3uoDBV0

($1000) 42" LG 42 C3 120Hz OLED: https://howl.me/ck20SqLuGoo

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#40

I must be mistaken or something but aren’t there already QD-OLED monitors currently available on the market?

I have a feeling you might be extremely satisfied with the image quality provided by the C3, however, for peace of mind the Samsung Q90C seems like an excellent option for your particular use case. Do remember that using a TV as a monitor might have a few quality of life caveats, for example not supporting sleep and wake properly as well as possibly not supporting all PC resolutions via HDMI.

Do note that the Q90C uses a BGR panel. I like the fact that it might probably get bright enough to provide a better experience using BFI than the C3.

I’m not sure if the Samsung software is as good as LG’s overall thosame

I think with either one you’ll be satisfied with your purchase but you would have to adopt responsible OLED panel user etiquette in order to preserve your display if you go that route.

Not all use cases are the same which means not all users’ risk of buy-in would be identical.

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#41

I think it’s only been available in curved monitors and weird sizes? And always with a matte coating? Apparently, the monitors next year will lead us all into monitor nirvana if you’ve got the cash.

The way OLED handles motion is another cause for concern- the instant response time basically replaces blur with judder. Motion resolution on modern OLED remains worse than plasma. With BFI it’s about the same, but then you have the brightness issue. EDIT: the Q90C also has the judder issue with panning, apparently.

I also don’t like the weird subpixels on OLED displays because of problems rendering text (definitely a concern for a monitor).

Q90C pros
-BGR subpixels
-brighter with BFI
-no burn-in concern

Q90C cons
-matte finish
-backlit 


C3 pros
-glossy
-emissive

C3 cons
-dim with BFI
-burn-in risk
-weird subpixels

It’s a difficult choice. I think picture quality is undoubtedly better on the C3 but this becomes a bit murkier when you’re talking about motion resolution. Now the Q90C is starting to look like a better option… :thinking:

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#42

This guy has an inspiring story:

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#43

I think W-OLED subpixels are fine though.

20231220_141221
20231220_1412211077×808 355 KB

Also remember you can turn either the Q90C or the C3 upside down and have an RGB subpixel order.

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#44

Does it have issues rendering fonts properly, though? That’s my main concern, using it as a PC monitor.

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#45

I don’t have any issues where any of these are concerned but this is one of those things that are highly subjective. So you would have to know how sensitive you are or how important that is to you.

But you can flip the TV upside down to make it RGB though. Even recommended by RTINGS as an actual workaround for that particular situation.

The next thing I was going to look for was an RGB alternative to the Samsung Q90C.

LG has some IPS screens with local dimming. I doubt they would be spectacular in that department though and many of their IPS LED panels can come with DSE.

In practice something like that might be awesome for this use case but I’m not sure you’ll get one in the size you’re looking for.

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#46

Come to think of it, seems like simply upscaling text to 125% or something could solve the text issue when web browsing and text editing etc.

Kinda hilarious, but if it works…

So basically it mostly comes down to the Q90C being maybe twice as bright as the C3 when using BFI, but the C3 having superior image quality overall.

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#47

It’s a bit troubling that LG has removed BFI from it’s next generation of OLEDs, suggesting that it didn’t work as well as intended?

I can already tell by looking at the numbers that the C3 will not have the headroom to use scanlines and masks with BFI enabled. Sustained SDR brightness is 214 cd/m2. So basically you have to run it at max brightness with BFI enabled to leave you with 112 nits. I suspect that will reduce the lifespan a bit, but it does come with a 10 year warranty. It doesn’t have the headroom for BFI + Scanlines, though.

So now I’m strongly leaning toward the Q90C even though it feels like a stop gap until better tech is more widely available. I’m guessing in 2-3 years glossy quantum oled in a variety of sizes will be affordable.

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#48

Windows defaults to 300% on a 4K display.

I think it’ll be a good stopgap. Now that you have something shortlisted, you can probably go and do some more research to see if there’s some obscure model TV ot monitor out there that checks even more boxes than the Samsung Q90C.

When you get fedup looking, just take the plunge and enjoy!

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#49

This just in:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/s/onFtpXxmTf

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#50

comparing the specs on these:

43" 
dimming zones: 720
max brightness (HDR 100% window): 683 nits
120Hz max
$999

32"
dimming zones: 1152
max brightness: 1000 nits
160Hz max
$999

More dimming zones, more nits, smaller size, same price. Is it worth it? I’m leaning toward no.

This one, though:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCK1K44F/ref=ewc_pr_img_2?smid=A2SHWIYMNRTTNZ&th=1

Tops out at 144Hz but basically the same thing as the KTC for $720. At that price, it’s a more difficult choice. The extra brightness would allow for BFI+Scanlines+Aperture Grille(100%) while maintaining at least 100 nits brightness, or full strength slot masks without the use of BFI. With the Q90C, some form of brightness mitigation with shaders would be necessary when using BFI.

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