System requirements - Building a RetroArch PC

Cyber · 20 December 2023 18:24

I don’t have any issues where any of these are concerned but this is one of those things that are highly subjective. So you would have to know how sensitive you are or how important that is to you.

But you can flip the TV upside down to make it RGB though. Even recommended by RTINGS as an actual workaround for that particular situation.

The next thing I was going to look for was an RGB alternative to the Samsung Q90C.

LG has some IPS screens with local dimming. I doubt they would be spectacular in that department though and many of their IPS LED panels can come with DSE.

In practice something like that might be awesome for this use case but I’m not sure you’ll get one in the size you’re looking for.

Nesguy · 20 December 2023 18:40

Come to think of it, seems like simply upscaling text to 125% or something could solve the text issue when web browsing and text editing etc.

Kinda hilarious, but if it works…

So basically it mostly comes down to the Q90C being maybe twice as bright as the C3 when using BFI, but the C3 having superior image quality overall.

Nesguy · 20 December 2023 19:33

It’s a bit troubling that LG has removed BFI from it’s next generation of OLEDs, suggesting that it didn’t work as well as intended?

I can already tell by looking at the numbers that the C3 will not have the headroom to use scanlines and masks with BFI enabled. Sustained SDR brightness is 214 cd/m2. So basically you have to run it at max brightness with BFI enabled to leave you with 112 nits. I suspect that will reduce the lifespan a bit, but it does come with a 10 year warranty. It doesn’t have the headroom for BFI + Scanlines, though.

So now I’m strongly leaning toward the Q90C even though it feels like a stop gap until better tech is more widely available. I’m guessing in 2-3 years glossy quantum oled in a variety of sizes will be affordable.

Cyber · 20 December 2023 22:39

Windows defaults to 300% on a 4K display.

I think it’ll be a good stopgap. Now that you have something shortlisted, you can probably go and do some more research to see if there’s some obscure model TV ot monitor out there that checks even more boxes than the Samsung Q90C.

When you get fedup looking, just take the plunge and enjoy!

Cyber · 21 December 2023 18:48

This just in:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/s/onFtpXxmTf

Nesguy · 21 December 2023 18:51

comparing the specs on these:

43" 
dimming zones: 720
max brightness (HDR 100% window): 683 nits
120Hz max
$999

32"
dimming zones: 1152
max brightness: 1000 nits
160Hz max
$999

More dimming zones, more nits, smaller size, same price. Is it worth it? I’m leaning toward no.

This one, though:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCK1K44F/ref=ewc_pr_img_2?smid=A2SHWIYMNRTTNZ&th=1

Tops out at 144Hz but basically the same thing as the KTC for $720. At that price, it’s a more difficult choice. The extra brightness would allow for BFI+Scanlines+Aperture Grille(100%) while maintaining at least 100 nits brightness, or full strength slot masks without the use of BFI. With the Q90C, some form of brightness mitigation with shaders would be necessary when using BFI.

Nesguy · 21 December 2023 19:08

QD-OLED will save us, praise god. I think we’ll finally have decent monitors in 2024; hopefully we’ll get some sweet black friday deals but it may be 2025 before the QD-OLED monitors are really affordable.

EDIT: matte coating on the LGs is confirmed

Cyber · 21 December 2023 19:42

For me, I’d read lots of reviews. There are folks saying lots of good things about these on Reddit.

If it was considerably cheaper than the Samsung, plus good reviews and much better specs, I’d probably go for it but it’s good to get some independent reviews from reputable sources first.

Also, you might be lucky enough to get an RGB Subpixel layout.

Also ask the question, do you want to be able to easily go vertical one-time?

If you’re unsure about trusting the brand/product you can probably invest in one of those 3rd party warranties.

If the smaller or larger size is more preferable than the other then that makes it easier as well.

Nesguy · 21 December 2023 20:18

This is a major question for me atm. As cool as the idea of a single very large monitor is, there are certain benefits of a dual display setup that a single large display doesn’t offer. I could just replace one of my current 27" with the 32" and I wouldn’t be losing anything, although it might look a bit awkward. Can’t do the same with the 43" due to space constraints. So this is tipping the scales toward the 32" Innocen a bit more. And with any luck they’ll be coming down in price even more, and I can just acquire a second one at some point while I wait for affordable QD-OLED.

Duimon · 22 December 2023 02:11

The KTC (Which I bought at a great discount during Black Friday) has twice as many dimming zones.

The dimming isn’t good for anything Retroarch related (I have it off by default) but is awesome in HDR AAA games.

If it matters, the KTC does not have speakers and the INNOCN does.

TBH, the biggest reason I chose the KTC is because it’s black and matches the rest of my setup.

Nesguy · 22 December 2023 16:27

That is good to know. So now I’m leaning toward the KTC, because those dimming zones are pretty essential.

Have you tried it with the Megatron shader? Just curious.

There appears to have been a mini LED breakthrough because we supposedly have 5000+ dimming zone mini LEDs coming out next year for less than $900 (27").

Duimon · 22 December 2023 18:51

Yes. While not as good as an OLED it does look very nice. Night and day compared to the HDR10 it replaced.

Since it doesn’t have per-pixel dimming like an OLED, the dimming doesn’t look good with shaders, but the 1000 nits is awesome.

Nesguy · 22 December 2023 19:13

Have you tried Megatron on OLED? I was assuming it wouldn’t have the nits for it.

Duimon · 23 December 2023 00:16

I have not, but I thought that OLEDs had higher nits than 1000. Apparently I am mistaken.

OLEDs are better at HDR not because of nits, but because of black levels.

There have been a lot of reports that Megatron works really well on OLED.

Cyber · 24 December 2023 00:34

Best OLED TV HDR Game Mode Brightness Compared

LG G3

LG C3

Samsung S89C

Samsung S90C

Samsung S95C

Sony A95L

Best Mini-LED TV HDR Game Mode Brightness Compared

Sony X93L

Sony X95L

Hisense UX

Hisense U8/U8K

Samsung QN95C

Samsung QN90C

Nesguy · 23 December 2023 03:32

Yeah it has enough nits for limited HDR but not for the HDR1000 spec, and it’s only for small areas of the screen, which works fine most of the time for movies and modern games, but the sustained full screen brightness is actually worse than old LCD.

I think Megatron can work well on OLED without the use of BFI but I don’t think will be bright enough with BFI+Megatron.

I would still recommend OLED for modern games and movies but for Megatron we just need the sheer brightness that is only found on the HDR1000+ displays (unless you’re willing to forego motion clarity for the sake of brightness).

Cyber · 23 December 2023 12:07

Ignorance is bliss when it comes to things like this.

Makes me not feel like ever touching a CRT again, lest I make myself sensitized to what I might be missing out on.

For me on my lowly 60Hz (native) OLED TV with around 660nits typical, motion and brightness is all joy!

Also note that the Sony Megatron Color Video Monitor documentation lists around ~600 nits as the amount of brightness needed to really enjoy it with ~1,000 nits providing more headroom for en even better experience.

Looks like the RetroTink 4K folks are jumping on the HDR CRT “filter” + OLED TV bandwagon!

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/s/3wx8IQu8HT

The TV used in this example is a Samsung S90C. So you can pickup some anecdotal feedback by reading the comments.

Nesguy · 23 December 2023 17:11

Might be a good idea; once seen it can’t be unseen. Even my 10 year old Plasma ruins me for any modern display, only OLED with BFI comes close (about 90% of the motion resolution of the plasma). With BFI the brightness of the OLED is barely better than the plasma, and the only real advantage would be the higher resolution.

Of course, it matters what type of games you play, too. Being able to eye-track an object with perfect clarity makes a huge difference in any kind of twitch gaming. Not so much if you’re playing RPGs, strategy games, etc.

I think that’s not using BFI, so 600 nits would be about right for slotmaks: 50% reduction from scanlines, 66% reduction from slotmasks, leaves you with around 100 nits.

Yes it’s kind of amusing to see them gushing over things that we’ve been doing in Retroarch (mask emulation!) for years, now

The photos are decent but they’re definitely not using BFI, and I imagine they’re lowering the mask strength a bit.

Cyber · 24 December 2023 07:34

By the way @Nesguy, I omitted the LG G3 from my list but I just got a refresher that it was actually the brightest OLED TV of 2023 beating out all other W-OLED and QD-OLED offerings thanks to its use of MLA technology.

This MLA doesn’t seem to be snake oil at all.

I’ve updated my previous post to include its HDR Game Mode Brightness.

Here’s what RTINGS and Stop The Fomo have to say about that and what’s coming in 2024!

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/s/bT3b9FLL2U

Nesguy · 30 December 2023 19:46

So after all that back and forth, here is the monitor I just bought 2 of. It came down to the fact that there are some great discounts for this monitor right now, and anything larger than 27" is just too much for a standard-size desk.

Yes, it’s ultimately still a backlit display, yes it still has a terrible matte finish, but that’s just the state of things right now. Should at least be a significant upgrade over the absolutely horrible 1080p office monitors that currently sit on my desk, and should be very good for the Megatron shader since it’s an HDR1000 display.