CRT Squabblin'

[Brainbin74]

yes it’s true about the crt and the remanence of the phosphor, but the crt has the difference of the lcd is that it doesn’t have a delay of response time to display the new image, you have the clarity of motion movement that no lcd can compete, so between images the crt refreshes 60 times per second, I play every day on my consumer sony crt for retrogaming, and I play on a 4k oled tv panasonic ez950. … precisely so that with the bfi I get closer to my crt in clarity, and yes indeed if you activate a shader effect of phosphorus remanence this is almost realistic, but on lcd it’s just a blurred mess, and I agree with nesguy it’s blurred … as you can see the white streak is really minimal, and far from what the shaders think they saw 20 years ago in their memory, and that is the problem… is that memories are not exactly reality.

at 3min in this video you will see a black background and a white ball, but the bloom of the white is not on my crt, it is the exposure of the camera which films… the white bars are clear in real, and the white does not overflow like haliation,afterglow.

then I test the scrolling with sonic, no blur of remanence on the palm trees in the foreground nor the mountains in the background, it is clear, no remanence, no blur… but I look at the video on my crt vga mitsubishi diamond pro 920, then you… I don’t know with which type of screen you look at … if it is a lcd ips, va etc… it is useless, it will be blurred.

RETROARCH ON TV SONY CRT (WINDOWS 10)

what i mean about the bloom afterglow haliation is this, you can see here that it’s not the crt, but my camera and the exposure, it’s sharp and it doesn’t overflow.

here is my small contribution if it can help and you can see my mitsubishi diamondtron pro 920 vga crt that i use every day for internet forum video etc…behind the tv sony crt… I’ve done the housework since then, right?..

[Brainbin74]

I forgot the most important, I thank all the creators of shaders, programmers, etc… because without them no shader, no more retrogaming on modern screen possible… well for me, there are some who it does not even bother to play in 16/9 without shader without filter. … I read this I do not know where, the person said I on my lcd tv I prefer the raw image pixel not filter, which has never been the case of video games on crt … since the crt filters the image … then I respect the choice of people, it is not my problem. so thanks to you my friend guest you are a killer I can quote more hunterk you are a killer and hunter! I’m sorry for forgetting, but if I quote one of them, I have to quote them all, but you understood, I’m French, it’s difficult to express myself in a language that is not mine but learned in French school…

see you soon

[Syh]

Ye, all my point was is it’s a thing that’s not just limited to over black viewing .

Granted I said these aren’t maintenanced CRTs (I was trying to infer that it’s not something happens of proper equipment).

[Brainbin74]

I can’t say exactly, because with the scanning of the screen, the mask, or other type of crt technology it will be perceived differently. what I mean is that if you have a grid in front of the phosphor, you can only perceive what is in the window of the mask holes… but between the holes the phosphor which reacts to the electron gun will be invisible because it is hidden behind a solid mask… only the holes will let you see the remanence, but between the holes nothing… it’s like making a bfi on oled… black frame display, if a ball crosses horizontally, it passes through solid, then a hole you see the ball and its trail, then the solid the remanence stops the ball disappears, etc. 60 hz, 60 frames per second to take into account is my opinion.

and this is the clarity of movement, even if a small trail can be perceived, provided that no element is displayed, because otherwise you do not perceive phosphorus remanence, that the mask has already its window taken by an element of the decor, that’s why you see it better on a black background, because no window of the mask, of the grill aperture, or slot mask etc. does not have the window the hole to use… I do not know if it is clear to you

I take again the example of test following on my video of my crt sony, the mountains of sonic have a horizontal movement, however no remanence of phosphorus why??? because the window of the mask displays already a very luminous blue of sky, the brown mountains does not leave a brown trail in the blue of the sky…

if the background was black… it would not be the case, and the more there will be contaste on the luminance of color the more you will be able to perceive this light trail… the brown mountains in my example, it would be white? or any other light color with high luminance …

so to conclude any color that has a higher luminance ex: background that has a sprite object in front of it, and that has a horizontal or vertical fade will not be perceived as a phosphor trace… the higher luminance wins over the phosphor trail that could be seen, and then you add the viewing distance, and the higher contrast of the crt technology, and you really don’t see any of these defects. except when playing pong;; when playing 8-bit games that use simple solid color backgrounds, in 16-bit it’s not discernible at 99% you play zelda the dark green trees don’t leave a trail on the light green ground.

[Nesguy]

nice post.

Kinda off- topic, but I’m struck by how remarkably grid-like that aperture grille looks up close. I think most colors require just 2 of the 3 colors in an RGB triad, resulting in black vertical lines. It’s also sharp, much more so than what you see in a lot of people’s shader setups.

[Brainbin74]

yes that’s why when you saw my shader4k oled preset, you told me it’s not an aperture grill but a slot mask… but see the street fighter picture what do you see??? and my work in progress to imitate my sony on my oled Is this due to the structure of the subpixels of the wrgb oled?

me too I’m struck by how remarkably grid-like that aperture grille looks up close

[19 new photos added to shared album] RETROARCH SHADER FOR OLEDTV4K

[Nesguy]

To clarify: All Sony CRTs used aperture grille, but you’re using a slot mask in your shader setup. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but you said you wanted to match the Sony CRT.

[Nesguy]

It’s based on Royale, right?

https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/CRT-Royale#Mask

[Brainbin74]

I don’t know it has crt royale settings, but something else different preset that I saw… I chose it for its versatility that goes further than the crt royale, or the kurozomi, I do feel like I have more settings in this one…

preset that I use ready for the genesis genesis custom resolution 8X10 BFI ON (OLED VALUES-80 CONT-80 LUM-50 COLOR-100-SHARPNESS REC2020 COLOR GAMUT 2-2 ) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ShNsDM9tgamHKBdl1Q0zDwfXUvQ2hVW-/view?usp=sharing

I don’t think I saw the triad settings in crt royal, or the mask choices. I could be wrong, but I tested all the shaders in retroarch before choosing this one I see that if for the mask on the link. but there are also gammas the royal shader doesn’t have as many gamma possibilities in memory i can play in three different gamma places gun electron for exemple…

[Nesguy]

I just checked out your preset. It’s the “mask-type” setting that lets you change phosphor configurations.

There are some things I don’t understand in your preset, but you said it was tweaked to suit your display, so I won’t question it.

[Brainbin74]

yes but if you choose mask type 2 is unusable

ah if crt royal starts like this

shader misc slang

game embedded gamma/ crt electron gamma/ simulated crt gamma /your display gamma

crt royal

simulated crt gamma/your display gamma

and it makes a huge difference to have a bright image managed all along the process chain… otherwise?? I only see dark things with scanline…

[Nesguy]

All the mask types are working fine when I tested, not sure what’s going on. Type 0 is aperture grille, though.

Overscan settings are probably best left at default since this can introduce scaling artifacts.

[Brainbin74]

well I modify values to try to have a nice picture… for example if I leave the default triads at 340 minimum the picture becomes blurred with motion artifacts, this thing offers me 340 at 1920??? why 1920??? for a full hd tv??? the more I increase the triads the less the sprites are sharp and generate artifacts, and at the minimum it’s 340… I have vertical bars like my google photos at the wrong resolution, visible on white neo geo background. I don’t think there are many shaders that offer a special 4k tv thing… it’s only an adaptation of 1080p 1440p just an opinion. and crt royal doesn’t have as many settings as misc, while misc has all the settings of crt royal.

and i’m open to any discussion and sharing of experience i don’t pretend to be a shader expert just a user looking for a 4k shader that looks like my sony crt… and it doesn’t exist for more than 10 years… crt royal on the picture is dark and doesn’t look like final fantasy on my sony crt… thank you for the precision put if you put 0 for the mask the triads do not do or badly their work not? yes I take that into account and if you set custom resolution for example 8x9 and you load my preset everything goes back in order and no scaling artifact in 4k. in the border trinitron. my google photos have vertical bars when you view them not in 4k…

this on my oled?? or looks like my crt

it looks like a shader that imitates something… but from looking at it and saying oh! but it’s a crt image… who’s going to believe it here seriously?? not me. even in vga crt 30khz it’s sharper… i’m not talking about 240p on 15khz… not to mention the contrast and brightness… and you only have two gamma’s… and that’s why I say above that at the end I only see a dark, blurry, no contrast, no bright image… this thing is not a sony crt aperture grill… maybe the mask… but not the final result… just go back a little further, just look at the pictures of my street fighter crt, or even 240p test suite in video to see that it does not look like a crt. the target of crt royal is pvm bvm.

[Brainbin74]

as the screen of a user… that I found somewhere on a forum… this is not from me he sees his crt, then he sees the result of the shader lotte then compare this thing is not my crt it’s blurry

Do you have trouble distinguishing where the crt is and where the shader is?

[Brainbin74]

https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/comments/pl4xvj/retropie_and_crt_the_perfect_combination/

well I stop posting it will disturb the continuation here. I wish you a good game good health

[Nesguy]

I agree that the screenshot of FFV looks a bit artificial, in particular the mask looks bad over highlights. It’s just a demo though, not fine-tuned.

Not sure why mask 0 isn’t working for you, Royale can be hard to use. Guest-dr-venom is easier to configure and has many of the same options.

Nice Mega Man comparison.

[Brainbin74]

to be precise it’s not that it doesn’t work or doesn’t work well. just that at a distance the slot mask is more efficient and looks more like a crt from afar. you see megaman??? I’m having a hard time understanding the slot mask and aperture grill trinitron thing… even your screen that shows all three are not right… how can you say that street fighter on my sony crt doesn’t have the same structure as my shader on sonic here in the example?? do you see phosphorus triad R V B in street fighter?? not me.

[Brainbin74]

you are going to tell me that you see R V B on the real picture of my sony kvm??? crt aperture grill ( slot mask) sony trinitron…

[Brainbin74]

to be precise it’s not that it doesn’t work or doesn’t work well. just that at a distance the slot mask is more efficient and looks more like a crt from afar. you see megaman??? I’m having a hard time understanding the slot mask and aperture grill trinitron thing… even your screen that shows all three are not right… how can you say that street fighter on my sony crt doesn’t have the same structure as my shader on sonic here in the example?? do you see phosphorus triad R V B in street fighter?? not me.

[Nesguy]

The reason you’re not seeing RGB in the close up of SF is entirely the result of camera focus blurring the phosphors together.

100% of Sony Trinitrons used RGB aperture grill.

Aperture grille displays do not have the staggered crossbars. Even in the close up of SF you just posted, the staggered crossbars are absent.

Anyway this is not to start a fight or criticism.