CRT Squabblin'

of course it is… but this is not what you see when playing at normal distance, because even at 10 cm the result is this, and the picture of megaman is the same, green phosphor and the opening grid, no red or blue visible between the green… another screen of street fighter on my crt.

no on the contrary I love to discuss this, don’t worry I have no ego, I’m not defensive and I’m an open person, I love technology, I create video games also in 2d… unreal engine program… etc… thanks

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but i completely understood the story of the offset, it’s what i see on the oled… thanks to you, i’m going to switch back to aperture sony, thanks to you i’m going to go further in the resemblance, you need to have a good eye to see the slight offset of slot mask grid vs aperture slot mask trinitron (because between parenthesis there is slot mask

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I just tried it why I don’t use the mask 0 because indeed I perceive the vertical lines … but look at my crt… you can see like horizontal and vertical boxes… on megaman’s screen you don’t see only vertical lines because the horizontal is also visible… or else I would have to modify things and have the right dosage of scanline to close the windows… the mask 0 looks like tate…

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That’s because only the green phosphor is lit when displaying green. It’s not like an LCD where the whole pixel is lit. The image showing the different mask types is what it would look like if the color white was being displayed


thank you for the precision. so why does the mask 0 look like scanline tate, when i want to make my sony trinitron which has limited boxes in the horizontal and vertical… either there is a problem, or my oled doesn’t have the right rvb structure, because apparently the oled can also be wrvb, white red green blue and in this case the mask has lost something on the white diode??? i don’t know just a guess…

mask 0 doesn’t look like my crt which has boxes… mask1 looks like even if there is the small offset of the boxes, they have the merit to exist, the mask 0 has just vertical lines and does not look like the megaman screen or any other sony trinitron here is the problem

I’ve heard you say this time and time again and I always think, while this may be true, does that mean that a Sony RGB aperture grille shader will still look like a real Sony RGB aperture grille on a modern display after it passes through all of the nuances of that particular modern display? There are just so many other variable that might come into play here. Look at the differences in subpixel structure between PVA, PLS, IPS and OLED displays, if you display the same Sony RGB aperture grille shader on each of them would they look identical? Then there’s that whole think about pixel pitch, wouldn’t differences in pixel pitch affect how the final mask appears at different viewing distances?

This even gives credence to my above point. Shading a corresponding mask on an LCD still may not give the same effect and final output as an actual mask on a CRT so maybe the proper mask shader effect to use might not be the one that is designed to match a certain actual mask pattern and appropriately named but the one which after being applied to a screen and is viewed ends up looking closest to what one originally was trying to match after passing through the nuances of the particular display.

of course they can’t be identical since the mesk won’t have the right rvb offset, in the preset I’m using there is sample mode, what it does is erase the rvb structure (useless option by the way…) since it’s unusable… so why do i look at the alladin screen on my vga rvb crt and see only vertical tate lines??? and i look at the same time on my oled and there are only vertical bars on the first screen… and why do i see the squares on the mask 1 oled, the same way i see the squares on my vga crt??? no mask 1 doesn’t look exactly like my crt it’s true, just that the boxes are a bit off like the links in a chain… but mask 0 doesn’t look anything like the sony pictures i’ve posted here, everyone sees the aperture boxes on my crt, on the oled and you too on your lcd with different sub pixel structure… what’s going on here? what do you see more on the first screen of alladin??? on your screens??? the same as me 100% on the oled you only see vertical lines… and the second screen you see what do you see? boxes but not well aligned vertically a shift on 2…

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Are we all seeing the almost complete lack of curvature of the actual in game image despite the curvature of the screen? I find many if not most presets and screenshots I come across with curvature on to be a bit overboard on the degree of curvature. Plus a curved screen does not equate to a curved image nor pincusion effect.

hello to you my friend. yes that’s what i see on my crt… where i see a lot of curvature is when i position it vertically in tate, the crt in tate, a set of aeroplane i could see when going up vertically that it was bulging the screen… and you the first screen of alladin you see what on your screen? (probably lcd…) vertical lines? and the second one like me? boxes? if so like on my crt, and like on the oled… the subpixel structure is important for artifacts, but my preset which has a slot mask (thanks nesguy) and not an aperture grill, I managed to eliminate all the defects…

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You have to use a correct subpixel mask that corresponds to the subpixels of the display if you want it to look right outside of screenshots. Here’s a good post by Hunterk.

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Trinitrons are flat. :slight_smile:

You’re right that curvature in shaders is usually exaggerated, though.

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and I had to deal with that, with the help of test patterns, and 240p test suite on the systems… why do you see that i use the shader overscan in addition to some custom aspect ratio?? i can 100% guarantee that you will not see any fault in the genesis… preset even in alladin which uses colour dithering techniques, bar or crosshair, are aligned with a movement in the slot mask without artefact, touching only one overscan value… If I put for example 88 in overscan x, you put 87?? it’s fucked… put a white test pattern eliminates 90% of the problem, then? play, look, test and you’ll get there, that’s what I did on 8 different systems with different console ratios… bsnes for example… … doesn’t have the same custom aspect genesis custom 8x9, and bses can be 5x4, with custom overscan, to align the subpixel structure… that’s stretching the image 9 times and shrinking it with the overscan, of the shader, this plays directly on the final slot mask size. … the more you stretch, the more the overscan shrinks, the more the grid is refined… etc… this is not the case if you do video scale x2 or x3, here only the image is processed, not the shader mask…

They aren’t completely 100% flat and certainly not all trinitrons are flat. In this particular example the screen isn’t flat. Look at the way the light and shadow falls on the bezel. Clearly there’s a bulge in the center but that doesn’t equate to distorted horizontal lines in games.

Please don’t miss my point though because even on non “flat” CRTs the curvature of the tube does not equate to curved and distorted lines and misaligned status bars and text. That hasn’t been my experience playing games on any CRT and on computer monitors we had some nice geometry adjustment settings. Many go overboard with their curvature simulations in my opinion.

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You don’t have scanlines enabled, my dude.

yes no scanline, no need with mask1 That’s what I was saying, I’m going to have to use scanlines to close the boxes? yes, whereas if mask 0 was like mask 1 but with aligned boxes? I wouldn’t have to do anything to look like my trinitron… I just want the boxes to be aligned like you say on my street fighter screen…

Looks like an FD Wega to me, even flat glass can distort reflections in weird ways. You can see the same effect on my plasma TV, which is glossy.

PVMs and BVMs had curvature, but just on the vertical axis.

You’re not wrong

However, you’d still see some curvature in practice because these things were never perfectly calibrated.

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I’m in the 4K OLED camp like you my friend. I also love to try my presets out on my 4K IPS LCD which I’ve tried my best to match the OLED in terms of image quality and colour output some time ago. Apart from the blacks the shaders look almost equally as beautiful on that one. I love how the additional brightness brings everything to life even more, while on the OLED, it sometimes feels like it’s holding back.

I have reached a point where I’m very satisfied with my presets but thanks to the ever evolving and improving guest crt shaders and mega bezel reflection shader, I might have to go in and move around a thing or 2 in the future but for the most part I’m good for now.

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The CRT has scanlines. Its the combination of scanlines with the aperture grille that gives it the grid-like pattern.