Frame Generation and Retroarch - get 120 fps in retro games

RetroArch Additions
#9

Using machine learning to create frame rate interpolation algorithms has changed a lot of things. Generating animation is now possible. FSR and DLSS use motion vectors of individual in-game objects supplied by the game to be able to generate animation.

When you don’t have access to motion vectors, then the algorithm needs to figure them out. This is from 2021. It has improved a lot since then, but even back then it looked impressive:

Doing this in real-time so that it’s suitable for applying to video and games will probably happen at some point.

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#10

Let me see if I can upload a video. The app is super easy to use, it runs behind scenes and whenever you hit CTRL+ALT+S you activate it for the current display. I’m suprised because previously I tested AMD’s AFMF preview driver, and while that somewhat works for new games, it sucks for Retroarch, artifacts everywhere plus forget about having any vsync. Now, this other app lets me disable the scaling part and just generates frames, with vsync. The only caveat is that I have to cap my frame rate to 120 instead of the usual 144. You do see some weird artifacts from time to time (actually quite a few, but it’s expected at this point) and particularly with brownish colors, but most of the time it’s just great. And about latency, I’m glad to report that it is not that terrible, I was playing Terra Diver with it just fine. Love seeing bullets at double the frame rate.

#11

It can be really decent to go 120fps from 60fps, with the benefit of reducing screen blur a lot.
From 30fps source it can be hit or miss.

The bad side is the added lag, with a part of it probably caused by having to run RA in windowed mode.

For the next frame on screen, I usually get around 25ms in fullscreen + gsync.
I recorded my monitor with “lossless scaling” at its fastest settings (default with scale x1), I get around 60ms.

(RA windowed at 120hz, sync swap interval 2 as it’s the smoothest it can be)

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#12

How did you measure the lag? I would like to measure that myself. I do not use any scaling, just the frame generation at max refresh rate, forcing my desktop at 120 hz.

#13

Video recording at 240fps with my smartphone in front of the screen + gamepad.
Then going frame to frame in a video player to count how many frames between my finger hitting the button and a change on my monitor.

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#14

Of all (few) videos on the internet, you put me this one, the 30fps video has interpolation. YT does not reproduce 120 fps, but what you can do is to lower the video speed by half to ne 60fps and be able to see every frame in detail.

I just want to see a video in action. Try it later, when I get off work. The videos I’ve seen on the internet are interpolation, it’s kind of weird because it seems to be based on the luma channel and then the other colors.

2021? Amazing video. I’m kind of curious in today’s technologically created videos don’t achieve half the quality.

Fact: The Enhancer for YouTube extension is very useful for viewing videos frame by frame.

#15

I just tested it now, in my opinion, it turned out very well, but does anyone know how I can put it in full-screen? I could only get it to work in windowed mode.

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#16

You will have to use windowed fullscreen for this one to work. I was just testing it a bit more and it’s definitely a keeper for me. My monitor is a 2560x1440 monitor and I force 120 hz, if I keep 144 hz this does not work. Had to change from Vulkan to DirectX and now everything runs fine with Guest’s CRT shader. The only problem would be Dreamcast since Flycast does not really work that well for me with DirectX. Latency is not a big deal here, I keep frame delay as 0 in the video settings, and Vsync Swap Interval to 2.

Edit: I disabled windowed fullscreen and still seems to work, weird.

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#17

Windowed fullscreen doesn’t work for me on nvidia/gsync screen.
I have to go windowed and disable decoration and menu, then choose the maximum usable scale.
A bit annoying.

#18

Just came here to chime in , lossless scaling is by far an awesome tool. Honestly makes retro games look like steam indie games with the high fps and works with hdr too. As far as latency i use run preemptive frames (2) and i also use a wired controller on my pc.

#19

How do you get this up and running? Is it only for Steam?

#20

It’s available on steam but works on everything.

I had tried it but CRT shaders create crazy artifacts. It’s fine otherwise, however I struggle to see a difference between 60 FPS and 120 FPS

#21

Besides Linux. :frowning: The developer also said that there is no plan to support Linux. There is no alternative known to this program, at least not in this extensive way of features and quality it provides.

Is running Steam required for this tool? I mean some Steam games (or programs) can be run without Steam running in the background. Sometimes manual work is needed in order to be able to, depending on the software.

Specifically with this tool using on RetroArch, or in general? In general difference between 60 and 120 FPS is night and day for games that support it native. But if we speak about retro games that run usually at 30 or 60 FPS, then interpolated frames shouldn’t make too much off a difference running in 120 FPS (in my theory, I can’t test it).

#22

Not sure if running Steam is required, I always have it on at startup.

I meant for retro games, i’d rather have nice CRT shaders.

#23

Not with Retroarch, but I’ve used it with RPCS3 to play Ico HD version which is capped at 30 fps in stereoscopic 3D. Searched for a 60 fps patch beforehand and tried to tweak the emulator for real 60fps, but no dice.

It’s working fine I guess. I think 30 fps or the like may be preferable for games with a “cinematic” vibe, but since I played that game with a VR headset for the stereo 3D, I just decided to test my options.

Also, windows capture in Win10 may add yellow outlines and Lossless scaling may interfere with OBS and Desktop+ (the SteamVR app I used to display stereo3D). You can watch the result in motion here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOY0UVikFAY&list=PLZKRUnUPcYXuqncGOc1OJWdC2vZMlwQSZ&index=1

#24

I think going from 30 to 60 is challenging as there is not many frames for the program to work with initially, so you get a lot of artifacts. At least from what I’ve seen on Youtube. 60 to 120 seems a lot more pleasant.

#25

Latest version 3.2 has really improved and has way less artifacts. I’m using it with scanline shaders with minimal issues.

#26

Do these extra frames reduce the LCD motion blur? That’s my priority, find ways to make motion as clear as in CRTs. Playing at 240fps almost achieves this (it’s pretty close) but the games must be able to reach these frame rates. Old retro console games are usually locked at 60fps.

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#27

To me, it definitely does, as I use it to double the framerate. I cannot get the black image generation shaders to give a decent image, but this looks great. A caveat to consider is that it still has issues if you use shaders with scanlines and some minor other details that the developer has been fixing over time.

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#28

Just a couple questions about the Steam app, for those that have it (since it doesn’t have a trial version)… if you are using it with the desktop version of Retroarch, does it just sit in the system tray, or run in the background? Are you able to have it open with the game and close afterward? What are the specifics of how you use it? Thanks for the info.