Here’s something else this time from my 2006 set, PS2 composite vs VGA-RGB Scart with some filters/shader on top. FCE Ultra/FCEUMM default palettes.
PS2 NTSC:
PS2 PAL:
VGA-RGB:
With core composite filter activated:
with Blarrgs SNES composite filter instead:
with NTSC adaptive shader default settings:
Comparing the PS2 NTSC vs the NTSC Adaptive shader, it seems the shader is blurrier horizontaly. On the other hand, the PS2 NTSC seems to have some sharpening artifacts to the left and right of Mario.
I don’t know anything about how the TVs decoded NTSC, but could it be that TVs applied sharpening to composite signals?
EDIT: I see some artifacts here on the PS2 NTSC over the black line too:
That’s probably more exaggerated by the cam, compression or whatever, other shots have this as well. The 2006 set does have a sharpness control which affects composite, but seems unlikely it’s noticable like that unless I turned it way more down or up.
Hi Jamirus, could you get some close up shots (as close as you can without losing focus) of your screen with PS2 NTSC and PS2 PAL. I’d like to understand a bit more about what is going on at the phosphor level of the Mario title screen above. If you are willing to do that, can you take them with ISO 200, 6500K white point and 1/60 aperture speed.
I’m really looking forward to you tackling NTSC video, I think there’s some room for improvement with what we currently have.
I think NTSC video is sharper on every CRT I’ve ever seen compared to the NTSC shaders, but afaik the actual NTSC emulation IS accurate, so there’s something going on with the CRT itself that’s making it look sharper compared to the shaders/filters.
Here’s something. Aperture speed for PAL 50, otherwise it’s very hard to see on the phone. NTSC:
PAL:
Ah perfect! Thanks Jamirus this is exactly what I’m after.
Here’s my first stab at NTSC - to be fair this is basically NTSC-adaptive (something both @hunterK and @HyperspaceMadness have been saying to me to do for quite sometime!) fed into my shader with a few tweaks along the way but I’m learning stuff. I’ve not got the pronounced ringing either of the photos exhibit.
Let me know what you think?
EDIT: that’s something by the way I’ve taken the LCD photo above at 1/30 to get a more representative photo of what you see because of the two alternating phases. Maybe we could get another close up photo at 1/30 to see whether that ringing softens?
I’d love to see what you come up with tweaking the NTSC Resolution Scaling and NTSC Blend Mode on 2 combo, according to guest it’s possible to come out with something nice but it’s tricky. I tried messing with it but just couldn’t come up with anything that I liked
Hi Sonkun, so sure I could play around with them (in fact I did yesterday) but what exactly is the target youre after? More fringing? More accuracy to the above image? (If so what details in particular?) Something else?
@Jamirus just to confirm the above photos are of your AEG CTV 4800 VT? One thing I noticed is the odd resolution scaling going on in both NTSC and PAL images - note pixel doubling in the black line of the hill. This is easy to simulate but I’m wondering where this is coming from in the original setup? Are you feeding an emulator output into the CRT for instance?
Should’ve mentioned earlier but that combination is just for a sharper image. I couldn’t get it to look the way I wanted on my presets so I left the resolution scaling alone but kept the blend mode on 2 then just started sharpening in other ways. Curious to see what you could come up with if you’re interested in a sharper image
It’s still from the same emulator as before running on a Playstation 2 console. Some limitations are dictated by the hardware, others because of how things were developed. There are likely going to be differences to an original NES no matter what.
If you haven’t done it yet, check out that link I posted earlier in this thread (you weren’t around here then). This features grabs from various consoles, the Neo-Geo composite output is extra special bad: https://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare.html
That looks VERY good.
We need some more reference shots with high-contrast edges (eg., black borders around sprites) as it’s the high-contrast edges that get blurred too much by most NTSC shaders IMO.
Ah good to know we’re in the ball park of what’s expected! The one thing I’m really noticing is the very distinct ringing effect on the CRT. No matter what I’ve tried so far I can’t really reproduce that distinct dark then light ring around Mario say.
I’ve made the halo more pronounced and added a bit of deconvergence that I think the above CRT has - it’s probably a bit more accurate but still missing that particular ringing. I’m also wondering if that ringing is visible in person as much @Jamirus? (As in is it because we’ve captured one of two phases and in person you’d see both)
Having read that article (thanks for the link!) I’m wondering whether using an emulator on a PS2 and then into a CRT is causing even more issues than we normally would by using the consoles directly. Hmm 
It’s visible, I’ve turned down Sharpness down to zero now, and taken something with 60 sec and 30 sec shutter speed.
Bingo! That makes sense it was the sharpening. I think we’re amazingly close now actually. What do you think? I mean with noisey images you’re never going to get it exactly right but that ringing is a lot more subtle and closer to the one produced in the shader.
The colours are off and I’m wondering why that might be - even in your images all the different options display different colours. The ones above are particularly red in the brickwork though.
Here are my latest two images, top one 1/30 and the bottom one at 1/60.
Quite why mine are orange and the CRT ones are red I’m not sure. What is actually correct red or orange?
There is no correct when it comes to NES color palettes. I’d say the bottom is closer to what I consider “correct,” the bricks should be brown without an obvious red tint, IMO.
