Please show off what crt shaders can do!

RetroArch Additions Shaders
#3811

Remember, this is OLED so the black is just the blue pixel in the off position. There is no ‘black’ pixel.

@Nesguy hey I’ve been doing some thinking and I don’t think that the white pixel changes things as far as subpixel compatibility with magenta/green because it is used exclusively to boost brightness. I don’t see any difference in hue shifts when using either magenta/green, Black and white, or RGB masks. I think it could be a misunderstanding of how the white pixel works. Obviously, BGR would make a difference. Thoughts? :thinking:

Otherwise, wouldn’t most content look off?

1 Like
#3812

If this was a problem that could be solved then @guest.r would have solved it by now. You’re not the first person to use an OLED with shaders, this has been a known issue for a while.

Good luck to you, though.

1 Like
#3813

It’s an issue of subpixel spacing. If the subpixels aren’t spaced properly then you get chromatic aberration and color fringing at the subpixel level. Whether or not this bothers you is subjective.

If you can capture the subpixels at 4K, then post a photo showing correct subpixel spacing on an OLED and tell us how you did it.

1 Like
#3814

I can try later today but I don’t really have the equipment to take clean photos. I just know, at least with my C9, that white is used exclusively for brightness boost. You’re saying that even though the display of the content doesn’t factor in the white pixel, that this creates a chromatic aberration side- effect? If so, I haven’t seen it. Thanks for the input. We need to get to the bottom of this :stuck_out_tongue:

4 Likes
#3815

And I’m in the same boat as you. My first sentence in my post is.

Right, I don’t understand, because I don’t see on my TV the problems that should be seen. Neither from near nor from far.

Because I’ve stuck my nose to the screen, taken pictures, videos where I see nothing, no artifacts, no rvb bands that overflow on the adjacent colors…so? What’s going on here? I can notice some artifacts though…it’s visible. But this? Nothing. Like you with the hue shift, or the.convergence, I didn’t see anything coming out of the.grid overflowing the mask or any conflict… So that’s where I’m at, no matter, one day the light will be on it. And a proper shader will be created… Even if I don’t see any fault with the masks…:grin: We need specific test patterns, gray background or other? Something that could highlight the problem of rvb mask on oled wrvb. From what I know, my tv never turns on 4 pixels at the same time, see my post above. So either r,v,b or white pixel? I don’t know more…but it’s lg who makes the flat panel. We must see the same thing…

OLED TVs use emissive technology and each pixel emits its own light at different intensities. Each pixel on an OLED TV consists of four such subpixels, and all four are never on at the same time. This is why we always take multiple photos of our OLED TVs, as you can see in the photos below.

1 pixel 4 diodes, I don’t think I can detect that because it must be microscopic with surgical precision, imagine 1 pixel and 4 wrvb diodes for that…

1 Like
#3816

How do you make 100% green with RGBW?

It’s xGxW.

100% red?

RxxW

100% blue?

xxBW

@Brainbin74

This has been observed several times. In close up on an aperture grille you see vertical RGB phosphors. If accuracy is the goal, then that’s what we should be aiming for, nothing less. The black and white mask is a compromise solution for displays that don’t have the correct subpixels to display crt masks properly.

Again, prove me wrong. Post a photo showing the subpixels in the correct order on an OLED, with no weird gaps between. I’m not interested in subjective arguments like “I don’t see it so it’s not a problem.” This entire time you’ve been insisting on accuracy in crt emulation, so let’s see you stand by that now. Let’s strive to be as scientific as possible and not fall back on subjective observations in our arguments.

Here’s some more reading for you, we talk about 4K masks a bit. You can see that pretty much all masks over-represent the black spaces in the mask due to resolution limitations. Naive tiling at very high resolutions (retina resolutions) solves this.

1 Like
#3817

That’s an excellent question and one that I happen to know the answer for. 100% RGB is 100% RGB. add the white pixel and you can go as high as (presumably) 200% RGB. This obviously results in the image being washed out. Importantly, when engaging the game mode, the white pixel is NEVER used. (it is referred to as bright boost in the menu.) One would have to engage the cinema, etc modes for it to work – as well as the HDR modes. As I said earlier, I am eager to share my findings even though I might have to borrow a high quality camera for it.

4 Likes
#3818

Kinda like how you can’t see scanlines on a Trinitron?

1 Like
#3819

Okay so at 100% RGB the white pixel is always off? Good to know.

It doesn’t really help solve the problem, though.

Magenta green, RGBW

RxBxxGxxRxBxxGxx etc

#3820

No, it’s not quite that. I’m saying that the scanline is perfectly blended with the aperture and hardware mask of the sony crt and that as a result even with my nose glued to my crt, I see boxes of rvb phosphors… It doesn’t matter. I’m looking forward to the pictures of his oled wrvb…

And I’m not a scientist, I’m just asking for a simple way to see the errors on the oled And to put it in evidence. Of smires or other it is all. 240p test suite I have color test patterns, I displayed a green background, I have to see what then? Rvb bands that spoil the green? And the blue? Etc… I see the black grill aperture on the green background, I don’t see any .rvb stripes that cross the green background, that’s all. No problem. See you soon.

1 Like
#3821

It was sarcasm, the name Trinitron is synonymous with scanlines in the retro gaming community. The implication is that maybe our subjective observations aren’t completely reliable, hence the need to be scientific in our arguments. Let’s not get too distracted, though.

1 Like
#3822

No. When zoomed in on the subpixels you’ll see uneven spacing of the subpixels which is not consistent with the spacing of CRT phosphors.

I’m pretty sure you need a macro lens to see the subpixels on a 4K TV, not sure if a phone camera is adequate.

#3823

I have an olympus camera that does macro. In 4k resolution about head. And it goes like this. I don’t even know the shader used here .

4-min
4-min3456×4608 1.57 MB

#3824

Use my photo of Secret of Mana as a reference. Individual RGB phosphors are visible and the RGB phosphors should be regularly spaced with no black spaces in between. If you have a macro lens you should be able to capture this if the subpixels are cooperating with the mask.

In the SoM photo you just posted there are no RGB phosphors. Contrast this to my photo where you clearly see the red, blue and green elements of the white pixels in the eyes, for example. A simple black and white mask does not emulate this. There are other things I could nitpick about the photo, but let’s stay focused.

#3826

Yes it was for the photo and the macro mode. So I can’t even find your reference photos. If you want to send me a mp, no problem. And if you give me at the same time a shader preset of you in the message That would be perfect, I load the game, load your shader that can highlight the problem. And I take pictures as well as I can, and then we’re moving in the right direction. Otherwise what do I do? I load any shader by default? No, your preset will be fine for me. Your reference pictures and let’s go my friend… :joy::joy::joy: I have a week’s vacation for this.

#3827

Here it is again.

image
image4032×3024 3.56 MB

3 Likes
#3828

Where does this picture come from? What is the display that was taken in the pictures? What technology?

You are the scientist, be precise, I am an artist.

1 Like
#3829

Run of the mill LCD display, think it was an ASUS something or other. Uses regular RGB subpixels. 1080p.

Edit: asus vg248qe

Using a version of @guest.r’s shader from like 3 years ago.

I’m fudging the camera focus a bit so that the lcd grid is less noticeable, and I added some contrast and saturation so that the photo more closely resembles what I see IRL (since the camera doesn’t capture colors accurately)

2nd edit: using magenta-green mask.

2 Likes
#3830

Holy cow! This rendering is classy, my friend. Well thank you for everything, now it’s my turn to work. But if you want to send me a precise preset for testing, I am at your disposal. Well, I’m glad we’re making some progress. Thank you nesguy, take care of yourself soon.

4 Likes
#3831

I’ll try to get some settings up later, have a good one.

3 Likes