Please show off what crt shaders can do!

For 3D games, like Gran Turismo, is very great!!!

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I’m less sure about what TV-out does to the lows, though. There’s no way to pass the PLUGE test with TV color levels enabled (which doesn’t make a lot of sense, since you’re supposed to run the Test Suite from a console connected to the TV)

Subjectively, though, the colors are a lot nicer with TV-levels enabled, and probably closer to intended colors.

:thinking:

it still passes the pluge test on the SMPTE color bars:

image

That is, black and superblack should be the same, and gray should be just barely visible.

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Nice! :+1:

Yes, I think TV color levels is “correct,” and 240p Test Suite is confusing. Why are there tests that can only be passed with full range RGB? More research is needed.

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Is it because Fudoh’s 240p Test Suite is intended for use with multiple displays, not just CRTs? That’s the only reason I can think of. The console outputs full range (I think?), but the CRT is limited range, but digital displays are full range. Or something. But then, WHICH IS CORRECT? Is RGB full range just a videophile thing, and limited range more “authentic?”

image

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@Hari-82 I agree with @soqueroeu that it’s suitable for low res polygon games to take the edge off but I would have to say that it looks like there’s too much bilinear filtering on the pixel graphics games. Looks out of focus to me.

Maybe it’s just my eyes but it’s difficult to look at because of the blurring.

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@Cyber yes, as I said that is the one more “pushed”, the variation with small change is this:

halation = "0.050000"
h_sharp = "2.999999"
s_sharp = "0.800000"
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Okay, the next thing I would say is by leaving noise on when taking screenshots, the viewer really isn’t getting an image that looks the way it looks when in motion.

Lots of the image information is missing from the still.

What I started doing was recording short video clips when I wanted to show off my presets which used noise, then after a while, I started disabling noise altogether before taking screenshots because it looks much more representative and also because I use very little noise now so in actuality it’s almost not even noticeable.

Zoom in and look at the outlines of the letters in the Super Mario World title. Do they look black to you or grey?

OTOH, really bad crushed blacks with TV color levels enabled. This can’t be correct.

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Might be a relevant thread here:

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35554&start=450

For RGB, IRE settings won’t have an effect. If you are using RGB with analogue equipment such as a CRT, you will have correct black levels regardless (provided that brightness/black level is set up correctly on the display).

Full range vs. limited range will not apply to analogue equipment, it will only be relevant if digitizing the signal (which in turn can be in RGB, or YCbCr color spaces with various chroma sampling rates) for digital displays, in which case you only need to match the ranges between the digital output and the display.

I looked into this a bit when getting my PS3, which is the newest console I own, since it allows to set the range (but only for HDMI). The general consensus seems to be that digital TVs (at least from that time era) are set up for limited range, monitors not. That does not mean that TVs won’t accept full range if set to, on other inputs, or whatever.

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FYI, there are times when games are not trying for pure black.

Noise is part of that preset, I know that in still images doesn’t look right (I wrote it in the previous post) and there is also compression (jpegs).

Those screens are not meant to be checked at 200%, it would not make much sense. Those examples are just to give a general idea of the preset, the best thing is to try the preset and see how it goes in motion and on our specific monitor. :blush:

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The biggest thing I’m noticing is the very desaturated colors, but maybe that’s intended(?)

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Yes, this kind of color rendition was the starting point this preset, I generally tend to enjoy slightly less saturated colors. then again, depending on the display can be more or less muted, but yes that was intended.

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For what it’s worth, the Blargg NTSC filters also appear to do some kind of limited range thingamajiggery as well, though mostly (only?) on the white end. It also does other things to the colors, though, which I’m not as sure about. One thing I found is, using Guest-Advanced, you can apparently replicate the same effect as TVOut-Tweak’s Color Levels parameter by messing with the Brightness and Black Level parameters. Setting Brightness at 1.09 and Raise Black Level to -16 appears to give the same results. Maybe try Brightness at 1.09 but leave Black Level alone?

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AFAIK, the color truncation on that filter (aside from the regular NTSC de/modulation bits) is largely a result of optimizations to make it run full speed on blargg’s machine at the time–which was something silly like a 200 mhz PPC Mac–rather than anything focused on accuracy.

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Then again, the color bars instructions don’t say that the bars after E shouldn’t be visible. I think we just want all the bars to be visible. The emulators are all expecting full range and if all the color bars aren’t visible there can be lost detail in some games and shifted color values.

The only time we would want to set the range to limited is when outputting to a limited range display (like a CRT TV)

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I think if we’re trying to emulate a limited range display on a full-range display, clamping those ranges is at least valid (i.e., not incorrect), to get things like the intentional black crush outside of the map on FF6 example. I also think the black crush on survival horror games was expected, if not preferred, as the games that included calibration settings would typically have you set it until grays were crushed, and setting it too high would often reveal critters just standing around in the shadows, etc. (that is, easy mode cheating :P)

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Yeah, I was gonna say, maybe it’s intentional in a game like RE. But I don’t want to speculate much further, unless someone with a CRT and real hardware can confirm. Perhaps I’d do well to ask in another thread.

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What if we should really be outputting full range to whatever display, including CRT and the display’s limitations will take care of limiting what needs to be limiting?

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