Please show off what crt shaders can do!

[SkyHighGam3r]

@Syh

These screenshots are exactly what I was trying to do over the weekend. lol So much time spent falling in love with aperature, but I couldn’t get a border/curvature onto it.

You mentioned porting the code for the curvature out of guest and into aperature - Is that pretty easy to do? I’m not familiar. I was initially hoping that somewhere in the CRT shader folder there was just a straight-up border/curvature shader I could add as a final pass to something, but I suppose it’s more complicated than that.

Initially I was wanting to add it all to interlacing, but the closest I’ve come there is mixing CRT-Geom with it.

[trnzaddict]

So I Did not know that the reason masks always looked off on my 65 inch Panny Viera Was because of the way plasmas do subpixels. However I do not like just scan lines on my games as suggested. A mask is one of the most important emulations in CRT’s.

I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on a 65 inch LG C9 OLED because I want to dump my CRT. Actually all 3 of them. They take up too much room and I just want everything on one TV. I’m getting older now and I am having less time and patience maintaining emulation projects around my house.

Between the sub frame input lag and Gsync compatibility would this be the optimal TV for new stuff and older stuff?

[Syh]

Are you wanting the copy of apeture with curvature or are you wanting the curvature added to interlacing?

[DevilSingh]

I’ve been using custom aspect ratio of 4x/4x for the tests, which is 1920x1088 at 4x internal res for PSP’s 480x272. So, I’m not sure either what is going on.

[Nesguy]

I’ve looked into that model specifically and it does not have adequate sustained maximum brightness with SDR content for accurate mask/phosphor emulation and/or black frame insertion and it has weird subpixels on top of that.

Masks are cool but I’ve gone pretty far down the rabbit hole of what it would take to do it accurately and the technology isn’t really widely available yet. One of the Samsung QLEDs is probably a better option, but some models have weird subpixels.

[SkyHighGam3r]

Interlacing with the border & curvature would be amazing! Plus with how small interlacing is, I could probably compare the two and learn a bit about the makeup of the file themselves, which I’m very curious to learn more about.

[Syh]

@SkyHighGam3r Which interlacing shader are you using specifically? I’ll look into it after I get some sleep and I’ll send you the apeture mod with curvature as reference if you’d like.

[trnzaddict]

Thanks. Even though I rarely comment I follow this thread daily because I enjoy all the pics and such. I know qled’s are definitely brighter however after much research it seems according to many websites OLED as of right now is the true successor to Plasma which seems the closest technology to CRT. I am not as far down the rabbit hole as you, but I still think we are a good 5-10 years away from a panel that could truly replace a CRT and I can’t wait that long lol. I am willing to settle with plausible mask emulation. I am just limiting myself between being locked at 1080p, the heat it generates and electricity it is consuming is as well is concerning. Also the weight is heavy. Qled is much cheaper though and comes with free sync but it seems to be rebranded technology.

[SkyHighGam3r]

Definitely! I’d love that. The one I’m using is just called “interlacing.slang”, it’s in the “Misc” folder. Such an awesome little shader.

[rafan]

I’m with you on the mask emulation stuff. Essential for truthful CRT emulation.

Given what I read on it in this topic, I think it would be useful if the debate on mask emulation with current technology LCD would be split up into these three questions:

1. Can mask emulation look authentic with your nose up to the screen?
2. Can mask emulation look authentic from normal viewing distance?
3. Are 1 and 2 possible at the same time with current gen LCD technology?

Answers based on discussions up until now:

1. Yes, but will result into a too dim and dull looking screen from normal viewing distance
2. Yes, but the mask will not be authentic with your nose up to the screen
3. NO

So, 3 is not possible with current LCD tech because of 1. Basically for this situation we need to wait a few years. Let’s be patient! Keeping the discussion’s focus on 1 and 3 is just not fruitful with current technology…

However, 2 is a possible reality with current tech. This imo is the answer to “willing to settle with plausible mask emulation” if you ask me.

As such, I think it would be much more interesting if the discussion going forward would focus on 2:

which current monitor and shader (settings) offers the best possible CRT mask emulation when viewed from normal viewing distance?

This would also make comparisons with real CRT’s more easy, just watch them both from normal viewing distance and focus the discussion on which shader and which monitor (specs) would create the most authentic experience, again, when viewed from normal viewing distance.

I would suggest normal viewing distance being 2 or 3 times the diameter of the (emulated) screen size.

This would at least keep us focused on something that is achievable with current tech, and keep us fairly happy until a few years down the line when 1 and 2 can be achieved simultaneously.

[Squalo]

I agree, masks are an absolute must. And if used right, they don’t really get in the way of brightness, contrast and saturation, as demonstrated many a time in this very thread.

@Syh and @DevilSingh - those look great. A bit sharp for my taste but still. CRTaperture is a mighty shader indeed, and it’s even better with curvature and corners, well done! I can has that shader pls?

[Nesguy]

You’re probably going to be disappointed with the OLED’s ability to do mask emulation because they typically have weird subpixel structures and insufficient brightness. Black frame insertion also isn’t an option, again due to a lack of brightness. You might consider taking a laptop with you and testing RA on the TV before buying; I think most stores will let you do that.

[Nesguy]

Adding a bunch of black to the image absolutely affects contrast and saturation, and that’s essentially what you’re doing with masks. If you’re already pushing maximum contrast then the only way to increase brightness even further results in clipping. Whether or not that’s an acceptable compromise to you is up to individual preference.

In my experience, lowering the mask to below 100% absolutely breaks the effect; as in, there’s no discernible mask effect with your nose pressed to the screen. I’d love to be proven wrong on this but my experiments with three different displays confirm it.

And no, screen caps aren’t particularly useful for demonstrating what masks look like in person for the reasons already stated. The mask maps to the pixels completely differently when the image is scaled to fullscreen (unless you’re using a subpixel-agnostic mask, and those have their own problems).

[Squalo]

If you apply the mask at 100% then of course you will lose a lot of signal, but that’s not something I would ever do. Just like with scanlines, I don’t like them completely opaque and black, like I said many times. Fortunately, for most of us this is not a binary system where you have to choose between 1 and 0. A more subtle mask effect adds a lot to the final output and results in a bright, not clipped, lovely image, especially if you color correct.

[Nesguy]

That shot looks fine but I don’t think you’re hearing what I’m saying, though.

Reducing the mask effect like that can result in some nice screen caps, yes. However, in my experience with three different displays, the very same settings will result in the mask disappearing when you scale it to the fullscreen, particularly when using the subpixel-respecting masks. Backlight bleed and other stuff just kinda destroys the effect you’re trying to achieve. Scaling the image in different ways can dramatically impact the appearance of the emulated phosphors.

In my experience this very much IS a binary choice, either off or on. Anything in between just darkens the image. Again, I’m mostly referring to the subpixel-respecting masks, but I don’t like the subpixel-agnostic masks for other reasons.

[Syh]

@Nesguy I’m just going to chime in here real quick, as someone who strictly uses sub-pixel masks at viewing distance of at +6ft away, at not max mask settings. I can visible see my mask at this distance, so I don’t really know what the hell you’re talking about.

[Nesguy]

I’d love to see the photos because I’ve been unable to achieve that on the last three displays I’ve used. Maybe I’ve just been really unlucky with displays.

In my experience the subpixel masks just kind of turn into a bunch of dark lines under the conditions you describe. It just winds up darkening the image and doesn’t look authentic or enhance the picture quality.

I’ll try to get some photos up at some point to demonstrate what I’m talking about.

[Syh]

I’ll try to take some pictures some time soon but my phones camera is fairly shite. Honestly my tv is a fairly cheap 1080p Vizio model so it’s nothing to write home about, but I’m getting visible RGB strips running down my screen when the scanlines are off.

[Squalo]

It’s not just a matter of screen caps. In motion, this stuff brings a big smile to my face. Hey if you don’t like masks that’s perfectly fine of course, but some of the things you categorically state are simply not true, and since you are a generally well informed fellow they might mislead other people whose taste and knowledge may not be so developed yet. A non-100% mask effect is perfectly noticeable, even from a proper viewing distance, and doesn’t destroy anything at all.

[Nesguy]

So far I’ve used a 1080p TN panel, a 1080p Panasonic PDP and a Samsung LED-lit LCD and masks kinda look like ass on all of them.

I think a lot of digital displays can do weird stuff at the subpixel level and it’s fairly unpredictable- it doesn’t seem to correlate with either price, quality or display technology.