The Guest-Advanced NTSC thread

[RealNC]

@hunterk

and doesn’t handle the “tv” NTSC test ROM as well as some of the others.

Out of curiosity, does an NTSC TV handle that ROM as well as the shaders do?

[guest.r]

@hunterk

@guest.r, I came across a shadertoy from a guy Astherix that simulates “analog overshoot”. It seems to work well for sharpening up NTSC output at the cost of some ringing. It might help with @Nesguy’s test cases. Here’s a slang version:

Thanks. With my current ntsc setups it’s quite easy to integrate by replacing the sharpen pass. Interesting is that “Decode Chroma and Luma Separately” should be set to 0.0 instead for sharpening effect.

[hunterk]

Yes, I ran it on my PVM via toaster NES with an N8 over composite and it looked like maister’s with the fields merged, IIRC (it’s been quite some time since I did it, but I certainly would have remembered if the results were wildly different).

Interesting is that “Decode Chroma and Luma Separately” should be set to 0.0 instead for sharpening effect.

heh, yeah, I don’t know what’s up there. I had it the other way around at first and then realized it was backward in the original and changed it to match.

[Nesguy]

Looks promising! Some quick tweaking:

[Nesguy]

I’m going to stop posting the waterfall (we know it blends), now it’s all about getting the white text as sharp as possible.

shaders = "18"
shader0 = "shaders_slang/misc/grade.slang"
filter_linear0 = "false"
wrap_mode0 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input0 = "false"
alias0 = ""
float_framebuffer0 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer0 = "false"
scale_type_x0 = "source"
scale_x0 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y0 = "source"
scale_y0 = "1.000000"
shader1 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/stock.slang"
filter_linear1 = "false"
wrap_mode1 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input1 = "false"
alias1 = "StockPass"
float_framebuffer1 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer1 = "false"
scale_type_x1 = "source"
scale_x1 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y1 = "source"
scale_y1 = "1.000000"
shader2 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/afterglow0.slang"
filter_linear2 = "true"
wrap_mode2 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input2 = "false"
alias2 = "AfterglowPass"
float_framebuffer2 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer2 = "false"
scale_type_x2 = "source"
scale_x2 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y2 = "source"
scale_y2 = "1.000000"
shader3 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/pre-shaders-afterglow.slang"
filter_linear3 = "true"
wrap_mode3 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input3 = "false"
alias3 = "PrePass0"
float_framebuffer3 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer3 = "false"
scale_type_x3 = "source"
scale_x3 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y3 = "source"
scale_y3 = "1.000000"
shader4 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/ntsc/ntsc-pass1.slang"
filter_linear4 = "false"
wrap_mode4 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input4 = "false"
alias4 = "NPass1"
float_framebuffer4 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer4 = "false"
scale_type_x4 = "source"
scale_x4 = "4.000000"
scale_type_y4 = "source"
scale_y4 = "1.000000"
shader5 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/ntsc/ntsc-pass2.slang"
filter_linear5 = "true"
wrap_mode5 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input5 = "false"
alias5 = ""
float_framebuffer5 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer5 = "false"
scale_type_x5 = "source"
scale_x5 = "0.500000"
scale_type_y5 = "source"
scale_y5 = "1.000000"
shader6 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/ntsc/ntsc-pass3.slang"
filter_linear6 = "true"
wrap_mode6 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input6 = "false"
alias6 = ""
float_framebuffer6 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer6 = "false"
scale_type_x6 = "source"
scale_x6 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y6 = "source"
scale_y6 = "1.000000"
shader7 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/NTSC analog overshoot.slang"
filter_linear7 = "true"
wrap_mode7 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input7 = "false"
alias7 = "NtscPass"
float_framebuffer7 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer7 = "false"
scale_type_x7 = "source"
scale_x7 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y7 = "source"
scale_y7 = "1.000000"
shader8 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/stock.slang"
filter_linear8 = "true"
wrap_mode8 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input8 = "true"
alias8 = "PrePass"
float_framebuffer8 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer8 = "false"
scale_type_x8 = "source"
scale_x8 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y8 = "source"
scale_y8 = "1.000000"
shader9 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/avg-lum-ntsc.slang"
filter_linear9 = "true"
wrap_mode9 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input9 = "true"
alias9 = "AvgLumPass"
float_framebuffer9 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer9 = "false"
scale_type_x9 = "source"
scale_x9 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y9 = "source"
scale_y9 = "1.000000"
shader10 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/linearize-ntsc.slang"
filter_linear10 = "true"
wrap_mode10 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input10 = "false"
alias10 = "LinearizePass"
float_framebuffer10 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer10 = "false"
scale_type_x10 = "source"
scale_x10 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y10 = "source"
scale_y10 = "1.000000"
shader11 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/crt-guest-advanced-ntsc-pass1.slang"
filter_linear11 = "true"
wrap_mode11 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input11 = "false"
alias11 = "Pass1"
float_framebuffer11 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer11 = "false"
scale_type_x11 = "viewport"
scale_x11 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y11 = "source"
scale_y11 = "1.000000"
shader12 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/gaussian_horizontal.slang"
filter_linear12 = "true"
wrap_mode12 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input12 = "false"
alias12 = ""
float_framebuffer12 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer12 = "false"
scale_type_x12 = "absolute"
scale_x12 = "640"
scale_type_y12 = "source"
scale_y12 = "1.000000"
shader13 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/gaussian_vertical.slang"
filter_linear13 = "true"
wrap_mode13 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input13 = "false"
alias13 = "GlowPass"
float_framebuffer13 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer13 = "false"
scale_type_x13 = "absolute"
scale_x13 = "640"
scale_type_y13 = "absolute"
scale_y13 = "480"
shader14 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/bloom_horizontal.slang"
filter_linear14 = "true"
wrap_mode14 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input14 = "false"
alias14 = ""
float_framebuffer14 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer14 = "false"
scale_type_x14 = "absolute"
scale_x14 = "640"
scale_type_y14 = "absolute"
scale_y14 = "480"
shader15 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/bloom_vertical.slang"
filter_linear15 = "true"
wrap_mode15 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input15 = "false"
alias15 = "BloomPass"
float_framebuffer15 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer15 = "false"
scale_type_x15 = "absolute"
scale_x15 = "640"
scale_type_y15 = "absolute"
scale_y15 = "480"
shader16 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/crt-guest-advanced-ntsc-pass2.slang"
filter_linear16 = "true"
wrap_mode16 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input16 = "false"
alias16 = ""
float_framebuffer16 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer16 = "false"
scale_type_x16 = "viewport"
scale_x16 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y16 = "viewport"
scale_y16 = "1.000000"
shader17 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/deconvergence-ntsc.slang"
filter_linear17 = "true"
wrap_mode17 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input17 = "false"
alias17 = ""
float_framebuffer17 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer17 = "false"
scale_type_x17 = "viewport"
scale_x17 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y17 = "viewport"
scale_y17 = "1.000000"
g_crtgamut = "0.000000"
g_vignette = "0.000000"
WP = "-100.000000"
pre_bb = "0.850000"
quality = "-1.000000"
ntsc_bright = "0.850000"
hermite_tension = "0.020000"
hermite_bias = "0.100000"
decode_chroma_luma_separately = "0.000000"
HSHARPNESS = "1.750000"
SIGMA_HOR = "1.250000"
S_SHARP = "1.000000"
HSHARP = "0.000000"
HARNG = "0.000000"
glow = "0.000000"
gamma_c = "1.200000"
brightboost = "2.500000"
brightboost1 = "2.500001"
gsl = "1.000000"
beam_min = "1.600000"
beam_max = "1.300000"
beam_size = "0.000000"
vertmask = "0.400000"
scans = "1.000000"
scangamma = "5.000000"
maskstr = "1.000000"
mcut = "1.000000"
mclip = "0.000000"
gamma_out = "1.999999"
textures = "SamplerLUT1;SamplerLUT2;SamplerLUT3;SamplerLUT4"
SamplerLUT1 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/lut/trinitron-lut.png"
SamplerLUT1_linear = "true"
SamplerLUT1_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
SamplerLUT1_mipmap = "false"
SamplerLUT2 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/lut/inv-trinitron-lut.png"
SamplerLUT2_linear = "true"
SamplerLUT2_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
SamplerLUT2_mipmap = "false"
SamplerLUT3 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/lut/nec-lut.png"
SamplerLUT3_linear = "true"
SamplerLUT3_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
SamplerLUT3_mipmap = "false"
SamplerLUT4 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/lut/ntsc-lut.png"
SamplerLUT4_linear = "true"
SamplerLUT4_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
SamplerLUT4_mipmap = "false"

[Red-gehog]

@Nesguy try these adjustments I made to the sharpening parameters:

WP = “-100.000000”
pre_bb = “0.850000”
quality = “-1.000000”
ntsc_bright = “0.850000”
ntsc_sharp = “-10.000000”
ntsc_shape = “1.000000”
SIGMA_HOR = “0.750000”
S_SHARP = “2.000000”
HSHARP = “2.000000”
HARNG = “0.000000”
glow = “0.000000”
gamma_c = “1.200000”
brightboost = “2.500000”
brightboost1 = “2.500001”
gsl = “1.000000”
beam_min = “1.600000”
beam_max = “1.300000”
beam_size = “0.000000”
vertmask = “0.400000”
scans = “1.000000”
scangamma = “5.000000”
maskstr = “1.000000”
mcut = “1.000000”
mclip = “0.000000”
gamma_out = “1.999999”

I have different colors in my preset, but the sharpening should look like this:

[Nesguy]

Sorry, but that’s very far from accurate.

Here’s the reference image:

[guest.r]

I like the sharpness something like this:

Some help from adaptive sharpness is welcome though.

[Nesguy]

Sharpness looks great there, but it’s lacking in brightness. When you crank up the brightness settings it becomes more difficult to keep the image sharp.

[Nesguy]

Three pixel mask (BGR) looking pretty good here, I think. When using the three pixel mask (at 100%) I just crank up the brightness boosts until the scanlines disappear in highlights, then I gradually reduce the beam width until scanlines are visible again. You need to use very minimal scanlines with an SDR display and the three pixel mask, but I think it can get tolerably bright.

This is also showing off the “analog overshoot” a bit.

[Hyllian]

A very good solution for 1080p displays.

Hey, you like Sony CXA palette!

[AnonymousAndy]

That looks pretty PAL-esque, and I love it.

[Nesguy]

looking at this screenshot again, the sharpness is actually near-perfect. How can we maintain this sharpness while increasing brightness?

[guest.r]

It can be tried to boost ‘brightboost dark’ more than ‘brightboost bright’. It also reduces clipping. Personally i like to use ‘gamma correct’ also, it doesn’t change saturation + no clipping.

Pushing mid-high bright and very bright colors too much can issue the most problems with sharpness.

[Nesguy]

@guest.r

Pushing mid-high bright and very bright colors too much can issue the most problems with sharpness

I think altered code may be needed because of this. You absolutely need to push the bright boosts very high to compensate for 100% mask strength (without other mitigation techniques), but this has a very negative effect on sharpness, which is only partially mitigated with the sharpness tools.

In theory the filter could be altered to preserve sharpness at higher brightness levels, but I have no idea how.

Spent basically all day yesterday pretending to work but actually playing with the filter in the NTSC shader… it’s very difficult to configure, even for someone who has been using shaders for 10+ years(!) You need an advanced degree in CRT shaders before attempting this.

RGB is such a breeze in comparison, just crank up the brightness and… done.

[Nesguy]

Latest version of my NTSC preset. Better, worse, about the same?

shaders = "18"
shader0 = "shaders_slang/misc/grade.slang"
filter_linear0 = "false"
wrap_mode0 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input0 = "false"
alias0 = ""
float_framebuffer0 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer0 = "false"
scale_type_x0 = "source"
scale_x0 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y0 = "source"
scale_y0 = "1.000000"
shader1 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/stock.slang"
filter_linear1 = "false"
wrap_mode1 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input1 = "false"
alias1 = "StockPass"
float_framebuffer1 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer1 = "false"
scale_type_x1 = "source"
scale_x1 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y1 = "source"
scale_y1 = "1.000000"
shader2 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/afterglow0.slang"
filter_linear2 = "true"
wrap_mode2 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input2 = "false"
alias2 = "AfterglowPass"
float_framebuffer2 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer2 = "false"
scale_type_x2 = "source"
scale_x2 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y2 = "source"
scale_y2 = "1.000000"
shader3 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/pre-shaders-afterglow.slang"
filter_linear3 = "true"
wrap_mode3 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input3 = "false"
alias3 = "PrePass0"
float_framebuffer3 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer3 = "false"
scale_type_x3 = "source"
scale_x3 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y3 = "source"
scale_y3 = "1.000000"
shader4 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/ntsc/ntsc-pass1.slang"
filter_linear4 = "false"
wrap_mode4 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input4 = "false"
alias4 = "NPass1"
float_framebuffer4 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer4 = "false"
scale_type_x4 = "source"
scale_x4 = "4.000000"
scale_type_y4 = "source"
scale_y4 = "1.000000"
shader5 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/ntsc/ntsc-pass2.slang"
filter_linear5 = "true"
wrap_mode5 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input5 = "false"
alias5 = ""
float_framebuffer5 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer5 = "false"
scale_type_x5 = "source"
scale_x5 = "0.500000"
scale_type_y5 = "source"
scale_y5 = "1.000000"
shader6 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/ntsc/ntsc-pass3.slang"
filter_linear6 = "true"
wrap_mode6 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input6 = "false"
alias6 = ""
float_framebuffer6 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer6 = "false"
scale_type_x6 = "source"
scale_x6 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y6 = "source"
scale_y6 = "1.000000"
shader7 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/NTSC analog overshoot.slang"
filter_linear7 = "true"
wrap_mode7 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input7 = "false"
alias7 = "NtscPass"
float_framebuffer7 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer7 = "false"
scale_type_x7 = "source"
scale_x7 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y7 = "source"
scale_y7 = "1.000000"
shader8 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/stock.slang"
filter_linear8 = "true"
wrap_mode8 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input8 = "true"
alias8 = "PrePass"
float_framebuffer8 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer8 = "false"
scale_type_x8 = "source"
scale_x8 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y8 = "source"
scale_y8 = "1.000000"
shader9 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/avg-lum-ntsc.slang"
filter_linear9 = "true"
wrap_mode9 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input9 = "true"
alias9 = "AvgLumPass"
float_framebuffer9 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer9 = "false"
scale_type_x9 = "source"
scale_x9 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y9 = "source"
scale_y9 = "1.000000"
shader10 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/linearize-ntsc.slang"
filter_linear10 = "true"
wrap_mode10 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input10 = "false"
alias10 = "LinearizePass"
float_framebuffer10 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer10 = "false"
scale_type_x10 = "source"
scale_x10 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y10 = "source"
scale_y10 = "1.000000"
shader11 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/crt-guest-advanced-ntsc-pass1.slang"
filter_linear11 = "true"
wrap_mode11 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input11 = "false"
alias11 = "Pass1"
float_framebuffer11 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer11 = "false"
scale_type_x11 = "viewport"
scale_x11 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y11 = "source"
scale_y11 = "1.000000"
shader12 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/gaussian_horizontal.slang"
filter_linear12 = "true"
wrap_mode12 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input12 = "false"
alias12 = ""
float_framebuffer12 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer12 = "false"
scale_type_x12 = "absolute"
scale_x12 = "640"
scale_type_y12 = "source"
scale_y12 = "1.000000"
shader13 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/gaussian_vertical.slang"
filter_linear13 = "true"
wrap_mode13 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input13 = "false"
alias13 = "GlowPass"
float_framebuffer13 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer13 = "false"
scale_type_x13 = "absolute"
scale_x13 = "640"
scale_type_y13 = "absolute"
scale_y13 = "480"
shader14 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/bloom_horizontal.slang"
filter_linear14 = "true"
wrap_mode14 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input14 = "false"
alias14 = ""
float_framebuffer14 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer14 = "false"
scale_type_x14 = "absolute"
scale_x14 = "640"
scale_type_y14 = "absolute"
scale_y14 = "480"
shader15 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/bloom_vertical.slang"
filter_linear15 = "true"
wrap_mode15 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input15 = "false"
alias15 = "BloomPass"
float_framebuffer15 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer15 = "false"
scale_type_x15 = "absolute"
scale_x15 = "640"
scale_type_y15 = "absolute"
scale_y15 = "480"
shader16 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/crt-guest-advanced-ntsc-pass2.slang"
filter_linear16 = "true"
wrap_mode16 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input16 = "false"
alias16 = ""
float_framebuffer16 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer16 = "false"
scale_type_x16 = "viewport"
scale_x16 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y16 = "viewport"
scale_y16 = "1.000000"
shader17 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/deconvergence-ntsc.slang"
filter_linear17 = "true"
wrap_mode17 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input17 = "false"
alias17 = ""
float_framebuffer17 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer17 = "false"
scale_type_x17 = "viewport"
scale_x17 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y17 = "viewport"
scale_y17 = "1.000000"
g_gamma_in = "2.250000"
g_crtgamut = "0.000000"
g_vignette = "0.000000"
WP = "-100.000000"
pre_bb = "0.900000"
quality = "0.000000"
ntsc_bright = "0.900000"
hermite_tension = "0.010000"
hermite_bias = "0.500001"
GAMMA_INPUT = "2.399999"
SIGMA_HOR = "1.000000"
S_SHARP = "1.000000"
HSHARP = "0.000000"
HARNG = "0.000000"
glow = "0.000000"
gamma_c = "1.200000"
brightboost = "2.499999"
brightboost1 = "2.500001"
beam_min = "1.400000"
beam_max = "1.100000"
scans = "1.000001"
maskstr = "1.000000"
mclip = "0.000000"
gamma_out = "2.399999"
textures = "SamplerLUT1;SamplerLUT2;SamplerLUT3;SamplerLUT4"
SamplerLUT1 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/lut/trinitron-lut.png"
SamplerLUT1_linear = "true"
SamplerLUT1_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
SamplerLUT1_mipmap = "false"
SamplerLUT2 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/lut/inv-trinitron-lut.png"
SamplerLUT2_linear = "true"
SamplerLUT2_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
SamplerLUT2_mipmap = "false"
SamplerLUT3 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/lut/nec-lut.png"
SamplerLUT3_linear = "true"
SamplerLUT3_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
SamplerLUT3_mipmap = "false"
SamplerLUT4 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/guest/advanced/lut/ntsc-lut.png"
SamplerLUT4_linear = "true"
SamplerLUT4_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
SamplerLUT4_mipmap = "false"

[c9f5fdda06]

This looks really nice. Mega Bezel version, pls

[Nesguy]

A quick comparison using the “analogue overshoot” vs without.

hermite tension 0.01, bias 0.50.

no analogue overshoot.

[hunterk]

It’s subtle, but it crisps things up nicely.

btw, now that the new guest-advanced shaders are in the repo, I think your old max-DR preset is busted. Would you want to submit a new preset using the updated shaders?

[c9f5fdda06]

When the staff roll starts to play in real life

I love this shader! Thanks @guest.r @Duimon and @HyperspaceMadness

Megaman X - Cast Roll - Guitar Cover - YouTube