The Holy Grail: What is the right way to use a CRT television?

Libretro Lakka
#41

[QUOTE=gouchi;41357]Did you try with custom mode like :

hdmi_cvt=768 240 60 1 0 0 0

“The one you’re probably interested in is the custom resolution config file, where you can modify the following line to set up your output resolution - it does look like you’re limited to 240p @ 60fps, but the horizontal resolution can be anything you want up to 1920x240: hdmi_cvt=768 240 60 1 0 0 0”.

Source[/QUOTE]

Thanks gouchi. I am actually getting some help from the owner of that video directly. He suggested some direction that I will test as soon as I can.

If I can get this all working I will make a full video tutorial on how to set it all up for NTSC component. With all of the input lag and core patching the guys are doing in the other thread. HDMI 240p combined with their work could really create the ultimate CRT TV setup.

#42

[QUOTE=dankcushions;41429] i’m not convinced mame2003 doesn’t support CHDs/kinst as i could never find the right versions of the CHDs according to my dat file. even the ones in my 0.78 romset were wrong, and all the chds i find online are the wrong version also.[/QUOTE] might try this again later - if anyone is interested, here’s the checksums for the kinst.chd that mame2003 is looking for: DISK_IMAGE( “kinst.chd”, 0, MD5(6d4c2f152c9a18ab3a9b05b8804306a8) SHA1(a37a2c5e52ea936a715210d237874dd573bb002f) )

#43

[QUOTE=dankcushions;41431]might try this again later - if anyone is interested, here’s the checksums for the kinst.chd that mame2003 is looking for: DISK_IMAGE( “kinst.chd”, 0, MD5(6d4c2f152c9a18ab3a9b05b8804306a8) SHA1(a37a2c5e52ea936a715210d237874dd573bb002f) )[/QUOTE]

I believe that version of the CHD is in circulation as part of the “MAME 2003 Reference Set”

#44

just downloaded! unfortunately it’s the same kinst.chd that i had before that doesn’t work: sha1= 77ec1dcd7d41ece81be4dd44682a1a82e27b6330 md5 = c55d552c3a698f839d32c41203213dc9

i know there are some cd5 manager programs that can change the version… might have some luck there. could be something else, dunno…

#45

[QUOTE=dankcushions;41532]just downloaded! unfortunately it’s the same kinst.chd that i had before that doesn’t work: sha1= 77ec1dcd7d41ece81be4dd44682a1a82e27b6330 md5 = c55d552c3a698f839d32c41203213dc9

i know there are some cd5 manager programs that can change the version… might have some luck there. could be something else, dunno…[/QUOTE]

Are you looking at the checksum for the whole file, or the checksum of the disk data stored within the CHD? According to the ‘Compact History of MAME’ in the Pleasure Dome forum, CHD v3 was adopted from MAME 0.77u1 and later. I’m able to validate the kinst.chd from the MAME 2003 Reference Set as CHD v3 in chdman – it’s also showing the same sha1 that you are looking for: a37a2c5e52ea936a715210d237874dd573bb002f.

I’m validating this kinst.chd successfully with the ProgettoSNAPS DAT in ClrMamePro with all of the CRC/SHA verification options enabled as well. I think it’s the one, but I’m curious if that’s not true. Here’s my chdman output:


chdman - MAME Compressed Hunks of Data (CHD) manager 0.146 (May 21 2012)
Input file:   kinst.chd
File Version: 3
Logical size: 131,076,608 bytes
Hunk Size:    4,096 bytes
Total Hunks:  32,002
Unit Size:    512 bytes
Total Units:  256,009
Compression:  zlib (Deflate)
CHD size:     95,627,930 bytes
Ratio:        73.0%
SHA1:         a37a2c5e52ea936a715210d237874dd573bb002f
Metadata:     Tag='GDDD'  Index=0  Length=34 bytes
              CYLS:419,HEADS:13,SECS:47,BPS:512.
#46

oh! well, that’s good :slight_smile: unfortunately it doesn’t make a difference to lr-mame2003 as it still doesn’t run, even with apparently the right file. i’d be interested to know if it runs on standalone mame 0.78 (i think it’s still available on mamedev) - which would mean there’s something wrong with the core… but what?

#47

No go on my 240p HDMI to component cable. I had originally been experimenting with 480i and the shakiness was bad. Thats why i started getting into 240p native as even though the scrolling was happening, there was zero shake. I also tried Pal resolutions and refresh rates but it was a no go. I tried many different trial and error resolutions using custom resolutions, but I was still not able to get rid of the vertical scrolling (Custom resolutions scroll doubled the speed when I could get partial sync).

The goal was do try and do what the modded wii does sending native 240p vi component, but in my case over hdmi with the pi with lakka. I just don’t know enough to solve the issue. I created like 4 forum posts on various boards and have got no answers so I guess I will return the cable. I tried soooo many hdmi_cvt settings with no luck getting the scrolling fixed. hdmi_timing settings brick my pi if they are wrong and I have to reflash every time I want to try a new one, so I stopped that game after 2 days of trying.

I did contact the cable company “Hdfury” and they said they are working on a product due next year called “RetroFury” that should solve/do what we are looking for. So I guess I will just wait until 2017 and revisit.

#48

That’s interesting! I’ve been wondering why no companies are getting in on the retro tech. Seems like a pretty lucrative niche, judging by the framemeister market.

#49

I agree. I also thought about contacting “hdretrovision” the makers of the highdef snes cables to suggest a potential product as they seemed to be working on their own XRBGmini.

I do wonder if lakka had the ability to switch custom resolutions in the video settings like the wii versions 1.2.2 and below had. If that would of been a work around, but I just don’t know enough about video. I’m just a very avid retro gaming enthusiast :slight_smile: As my wii is running at 480i with a bit of shake, but once I launch retroarch and switch to like 512x240 everything including the natural scan lines lock into place.

#50

Yeah, that stuff was Wii-specific, as I think it leverages the Wii’s hardware specially to do it.

I didn’t know hdretrovision was working on their own upscaler. Exciting times!

#51

I switched again from Lakka to Mint 17.3 MATE, this time testing it on two different motherboards (same video card, scan converter and hard drive, but better mobo, CPU and RAM), and tested both the nouveau and nvidia (binary) driver. With nouveau I could use xrandr to switch to a 640x480@120Hz (on a CRT TV over S-Video and VSC-500), but when I ran retroarch it displayed one frame of the menu then froze (didn’t crash; just froze). With nvidia, the same xrandr scripts that worked before failed with the usual message, but retroarch ran fluid. All this with or without xorg.conf, monitor.xml, or any other fiddling. I tested the “stable” and “testing” retroarch PPA’s and the result was the same. The results were the same when retroarch started full screen or windowed, as well. Not sure if this is one or more bugs, even as deep as video drivers (using nvidia 304 when binary), but it has to mean something in the pursuit of a semblance of 240p on a CRT TV, one would hope.

[edit]

Looks like the problem isn’t the 120Hz but using nouveau. The only difference this time is the new motherboard, which has an integrated video chipset and a dedicated PCIe card which I’m using. I wonder if RetroArch is having a problem because of the presence of the integrated card? I’d test with the old motherboard except it died. Will report with any new findings.

[edit]

I confirmed that the integrated video card in conjunction with the PCIe card is causing RetroArch to freeze. I set the integrated card in the BIOS as the primary card (leaving the PCIe card in), connected it to my VSC-500 and it works at any resolution or refresh rate using nouveau and xrandr.

I still can’t get xrandr to work or set the desktop to 120Hz when using the binary NVIDIA 304 drivers, the nvidia-settings GUI or with modelines in xorg.conf. Nouveau does it perfectly using xrandr, surprisingly. I might swap the 304 card with a newer 340 to see if nvidia/xrandr works and if nouveau/RetroArch still freezes. I need a motherboard without integrated video, probably.

I also can’t get RetroArch to run games at 120Hz (menu: yes with fiddling, games: no) even though it’s set to use windowed full-screen and the desktop is running at 120Hz. I thought perhaps running a game at 120Hz and black frame insertion through the VSC-500 might create a semblance of proper scanlines depending on how the VSC handled it. I’ve tried manually increasing the retroarch.cfg refresh rate to 120.0, toggling v-sync and multi-threading. Maybe it’s a performance issue and I need a better CPU and video card to lock 120Hz.

Additionally ultrawide modes at 240 rows (1280x240, for example), look accurate but flicker due to the VSC’s 480i output. It needs some kind of scanline or row offset filter applied to the core/emulator buffer/output I think, but may still flicker due to the forced 480i to the CRT. Maybe I need to find an “RGB interface” to get it to offset every other refresh a row to achieve 240p.

Also noticed that RetroArch’s xmb menu driver does a bad job of rendering its menu text when the vertical resolution is small like 240 pixels (ultrawide resolutions). It’s not centered vertically so the selected/highlighted item is off screen. Maybe it has a minimum vertical scale starting at 480 or something. Anyone else having any luck getting 240p working on a CRT television?