Looking at shots more closely, there are also differences I consider drastic in other shots and it’s not console specific. If that’s explained by missing a TV in the chain, I should see something similar when feeding various composite NTSC content into my grabber?
1 Like
I suspect you’ll get similar (but not exact) results, kind of desaturated and lacking punch. Edit, actually, IDK what’s going on, it’s more than just a missing red push or saturation. I think it could be specific to that capture device.
Oh sure, I didn’t mean to imply that there aren’t significant differences between CRTs and LCDs. I’ve also seen notable differences between VGA and digital connections on the same display, though I suppose this in part because the manufacturers didn’t care that much about quality of analog anymore.
I also have two LCD TVs with 640x480 res and VGA input, 8" and 20". Here is that part with the flowers on the right from before on the 20".
The overall picture doesn’t look bad from proper distance, but it’s obviously quite different from the CRTs when examined. You wouldn’t want to mimic these just by blurring everything extensively like composite with GTU-50 though, like I have seen some person do 
2 Likes
well if it 640x480 then that will make it pixel perfect, anyway it kinda reminds me of gba screen
1 Like
Counterpoint: Sony sold official S-video and RGB cables worldwide 
Around and around we go…
1 Like
To be fair, when I was a young teenager I loved these connectors as I said in this topic before. But now I see that the console manufacturers (not the game developers) were selling them to exploit the image sharpness obsession of the time, and frankly, they had a valid reason back then because getting a sharp and clean image wasn’t easy
1 Like
Other than computers, people were also being used to RGB from the arcades. I prefer some of the better ports because of added modes etc still today.
Rich people (and lunatics 
) must have bought the Neo-Geo carts back then.
Something I remember seeing, but can’t find atm is Capcom having S-Video specific settings in one or a few ports? Related to some transparency trick effects of energy bars maybe?
1 Like
I believe sharpness/image clarity is one of those things that the average person just immediately recognizes as being superior. Our brains just want sharper images by default. It’s only after being educated on the benefits of composite video that people start to appreciate it.
2 Likes
Wow that PC-98 screen from the late 80s would have looked like something from the future on my part of the world.
I dont know if other regions like Europe here were able to mass produce that type of monitor. There’s also this EGA that Petran791 shared in the show off CRT thread previously:
I just love those brightness and contrast knobs just in the front, right in the face of the user. Something funny, dithering with grey pixels are blending well and are darkening the colors around (see the blue floor tiles), while dithering with black pixels are blending less and confering some kind of texture (see the walls). Or maybe that’s just the photo.
As for myself, I remember playing EGA games on a CGA monochrome screen back in the days, and only upgraded when I started working student jobs in the mid 90s. It was already a SVGA working at 640x480, up to 800x600 with the 486DX I owned at the time. I couldn’t take it with me while moving so it was certainly sold or throwed in a bin. But I got shaders from you guys to fill that void now. XD
4 Likes
My observations about 16 bit consoles and graphics, which had composite effects in mind are, that often double sized fonts are used, which are “imune” to dedithering etc.
I asked ChatGPT to estimate connection types for “16 bit consoles in their prime times”:
| Region | RF (%) | Composite (%) | S-Video (%) | RGB/YPbPr (%) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| North America | 45 | 50 | 4 | 1 |
| Europe | 30 | 36 | 1 | 33 |
| Japan | 20 | 70 | 8 | 2 |
| Latin America | 70 | 29 | <1 | ~0 |
| Oceania | 40 | 55 | 4 | 1 |
| ----------------- | -------- | --------------- | -------------- | --------------- |
| Weighted Global Avg | 40 | 53 | 5 | 2 |
At least there can be some estimations.
3 Likes
I could believe 33% RGB for maybe Mega Drive in France because of the historic mandates, but no way for any other country. The SNES didn’t even have an official RGB cable in Europe, so we can draw our conclusions here 
Recent find: The Super Cassette Vision console released in 1984 advertised RGB on the Japanese box!
3 Likes
Most PAL/SECAM region TV devices had SCART input options, which made RGB over SCART connections more common. I guess 33% is a too high estimate, but things were simpler.
PS: Maybe Amiga Home Computers and Atari ST were put into the Equation in Europe Region. Then it would make much more sense…
1 Like
I believe this Japan data is correct.
2 Likes
Regarding the Super Cassette Vision, it did indeed have an RGB terminal.
Only extremely wealthy users who purchased the Super Cassette Vision would have connected it via RGB. Most users used RF.
1 Like
I think this post by @ynnad4, needs a bit more prominence as there are interviews with actual developers of various systems and they speak to their intentions with respect to this very topic we’re discussing. So read this if you want to hear from at least some of the “horses’ mouths”.
4 Likes
It makes sense for a developer to take into consideration what cable the system came with and draw with that in mind. Assuming that 90% will just go on and use that cable. Most of them wouldn’t even know what s-video is or even know if RF is worse than Composite. That’s the late 80s/early 90s. Myself too, some years ago i believed composite over scart is the same like RGB scart, like “why do i need rgb scart for Wii, my console already plugs to scart” only from composite lol.
3 Likes
Ha, also had an experience with the Wii when I got it from a family member years ago. One of the first things I did was making it able to play homebrew. So I’m tinkering with Dosbox and some small looking texts and I’m like “Why is everything so hard to read here?” (me having used a multi-console RGB cable for any other hardware for some time). Taking a look at the Wii cable: “Oh. Duh, of course”.
2 Likes
I did play with those using Avisynth crt_display (more specifically the plus ver.)
ImageSource("Z:\dcb0c4db7f50cc379f797cddc831bc927a85f664.png") #or something else if you use video
SeparateFields().AssumeFieldBased() #lossless convert from 480i to 240p (use it only if the content is real 240p)
convertbits(16).ConvertToPlanarRGB()
Crop(20, 10, -20, -10) #remove overscan
crt_display(3, 5, blurh=1.15, scandist=1.05, cutoff=0.9, glowgain=0.125, halgain=0.03, cromaclear=0.75, softclip=0.75)
BilinearResize(1440,1080).ConvertToYUV420(matrix="Rec709").Convertbits(8,dither=1) #scale to display and make it digital video friendly
Edit: better and faster code
ImageSource("Z:\dcb0c4db7f50cc379f797cddc831bc927a85f664.png") #or something else if you use video
SeparateFields().AssumeFieldBased() #lossless convert from 480i to 240p (use it only if the content is real 240p)
convertbits(16).ConvertToPlanarRGB()
Crop(20, 10, -20, -10) #remove overscan
w = 1440 #display Width
h = 1080 #display Height
crt_display(float(w)/Width(), float(h)/Height(), blurh=1.15, scandist=1.05, cutoff=0.9, glowgain=0.125, halgain=0.03, cromaclear=0.15, softclip=0.75)
ConvertToYUV420(matrix="Rec709").Convertbits(8,dither=1) #make it digital video friendly
here the APNG of the 2 frames (since 1 frame in 480i = 2 frames in 240p)
I may open a topic about Avisynth crt_display in https://forums.libretro.com/c/general/off-topic/16 since maybe there are some peoples who do capture from real consoles or from VHS that they did recorded back then
1 Like
composite in PAL nes maybe has problems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpUfqzR8iaE&t=304s
Edit: additional to
this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDkanelvgQM
so old consoles can look bad in better connection than composite?
Edit #2: speaking of jail vertical hum bars (or jailbars), I remember them in mega drive (genesis)
and nes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju2JIUcjIw8 too
sometimes they changed based on the edge of the pixel
so is there a shader that generate them?