Integrated graphics VS cheap GPU

Here we are again…I’m not entirely satisfied with my setup. I really adore LAKKA and Retroarch but in my case things could be a bit better. I’m talking specificly about 3D emulation. Dreamcast works like a charm but Dolphin is slooooooow. Hardly any game reaches 60fps on lowest resolution. I know it probably isn’t very optimized but I really believe it could be much better.

I have a Dell Optiplex 3010 (SFF) with a i5 3470. I’ve heard there is a really big leap concerning integrated graphics from the fourth generation CPU:s and forward. So the question is, would a cheap graphics card (that altso fits in the somewhat small computer) make the same different (or maybe more?) than upgrade to a newer system with faster integrated graphics?

Feel free to recommend fitting GPU:s, if that is something I should aim for!

If I understand the question correctly you could use a NVIDIA Geforce graphics card with the Valkan Lakka Edition. It doesn’t have as many cores, but processing speed from NVIDIA should help a lot! (Note, I have not tested this, but the theory is sound. If you have issues it may be the new lakka version after their server got wiped.)

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You can use the regular Lakka version with a tiny GPU and it will most likely run Dolphin quite well. You just need to make sure that the GPU is actually better than your current iGPU, and make sure that Lakka supports it (so, not too recent).

Any example of a “tiny GPU”? And I believe it shouldn’t be from Nvidia then?

Nvidia is fine, for instance a GTX 750 / 750 Ti is cheap and will probably get the job done

…so the 1050 ti would be a waste of money? (I’ve been considering it)

Yes because Lakka 2.0 doesn’t support Series 10 GPUs, Lakka 3.0 will

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@atari_soldier I had the same exact question for the past two weeks. I have an Intel CPU that does not have official support for Vulka on Windows but does have unofficial support for Vulkan in Linux using MESA drivers. Have a look at AMD’s Ryzen APUs 3000 series. They are very impressive CPU with iGPU chips.

If you want to have better shader performance and increased resolution with something like Dolphin it will be worth it. Even a GT 1030 might be enough for that though. I’ve got an old Nvidia OEM card which has about half the performance and it’s ok for Dolphin at native res.
Fourth generation Intel wasn’t quite there, you’ll probably need to get something fairly more recent, so you need to invest a bit more. Of course, then you’ll probably have a better CPU as well.

It really depended on which iG vs which GPU.

Getting a dedicated GPU is not always the answer for higher performance.

Personally I highly recommended a 7 Gen intel Nuc with IRIS PLUS graphic. It is well supported, as well as the rest of the system. (Get the fastest memory it support with dual channel give you best result).

Back to the topic, a Iris plus 650 iG is ~ 90% better than a Nvidia 730. But a Nvidia 750 Ti is ~ 90% better than a Iris plus 650 iG

Never try a AMD APU or 8 Gen Iris Plus, but it theory they would be a lot better than the 7 Gen Iris Plus. I said in theory is because I am not 100% sure if they are supported.

I think, a Nvidia GT 1030 (slightly slower than a GTX 750) is the ideal GPU to compare to. It is just good enough to run everything possible smoothly at 1080p. Meaning you really don’t need anything more than that because realistically speaking, 4K or 1080p are virtually identical sitting at recommended distance for most of thing you will be emulation up to PS2 / Wii. So you can make your call base on price and availability.

Personally I just use integrated graphic, It is simple. no additional fan, no addition power needed. and 90% of the time it will work, as long as it is not a super new release (assuming Lakka is what we are running.) I have used intel HD 4600 (2X*) and intel Iris Plus 650 (4X*). They both works great. *Recommendation on demanded titles.

The real trick about using integrated graphic is actually the CPU they come with. As many would tell you, CPU is the key for speed. Believe or not, but you might wonder why I recommended the HD 4600 iG (W/ the relatively old i5-4570T), this is because the CPU it come with has the fastest signal core speed for the SFF PC class CPU. And there’s almost no upgrade until the Iris Plus 650 (W/ i7-7567U).

No it doesn’t, several 3D cores actually have issues with iG :

  • flycast will freeze with mesa-18+ if you don’t force dri2 (will result in lower performance), iirc core can even crash depending on the OS & settings
  • depending on OS & exact gpu model, Kronos/Yabasanshiro won’t render properly because of buggy intel opengl implementation

That’s the only 3D cores i’m involved with, but considering those issues clearly come from poor opengl implementation on gpu side, i would expect other 3D cores having issues too.

Whatever the performances, you are always better with a gpu that is acting as it should.

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So I guess the best choice would be to wait for LAKKA 3.0 to arrive and from then decide whether a new GPU or an entirely new system would be the best choice? Any idea when the release is expected? Are we talking years from now?

LAKKA is a nice piece of software for “single board computers”, but for desktop computers i would recommend using something which allows usage of AMD/NVIDIA gpus with proprietary drivers, those drivers are a lot better than their open-source counterparts, in the case of NVIDIA we are talking about full compatibility & 10x performances depending on the use case (see https://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=26454). Sadly, such setup basically means using retroarch with an external frontend (emulationstation, hyperspin, …) atm.

Hai… Interesting.

I haven’t try Flycast yet, still using a special built with reicast based on Lakka 2.2.2. Everything works greats, well, it is a special built become the stock reicast don’t even launch at all for a different reason.

With that said, I should have said, “It really depended on which iG vs which GPU, and the version of Lakka you are using”.

But again, I much said, I don’t think GPU isn’t trouble free neither, especially when comes to LAKKA, where you don’t have a choose for Driver. Full on desktop is another story. (sometime different distro with the same driver can have a huge different, so…)

Maybe I should hold back my upgrade plan. hahahah.

So I finally got a chance to try out Flycast with Lakka 2.3.1 on my Intel Nuc today. I don’t experiences any freezing. performance seem “normal” to me, in fact, some game can now run on full speed on the same hardware, such as Virtual On: Cyber Troopers, which is known for its lacking. And very glad to see windows CE games works, but they aren’t perfect.

I can’t get Yaba sanshiro to run, maybe due to my game is compressed into CHD?

Is there any game that you recommended to try out, to see the issues you mentioned?

Also tried PPSSPP… not sure what to said about this one. problem all over the places, don’t even know where to begin. Some game wouldn’t run (They do run before), some game acting weird, like motion slide show, from part to part, but seems fine during other places. It works great where it works, but there are many place it just acting weird or not working at all.

bios missing, or buggy intel gpu.

Jeeeeesus! I visited Retroarch on Windows for the first time in a long time. The computer with windows on it holds a GTX 970 which was able to crank Dolphin up to 6x(!!!) internally…on the LAKKA computer I couldn’t even reach 1x remember? Afraid I Can’t go back now :frowning:

Maybe when LAKKA supports Nvidia 1000 series it would be worth to back though? I believe the simple fact of HAVING a dedicated GPU Is the big difference. And I don’t see a big reason to go 6x. 2 or maybe 3x is enough which I believe the weaker computer would be able to do (it’s processor is even a bit stronger than then the other one) with a low profile GPU?

As i explained above, you wouldn’t get the same performance, lakka is using open-source nvidia drivers, which can be up to 10 times slower than proprietary depending on model & use case.

I believe I read somewhere Intel GPUs tend to have better GL implemetation… Can’t recall tbh. For what it’s worth though, I built my own mini PC using parts from a broken Alienware Alpha R2: i7-6700T, 4GB RAM, 256GB SSD on an ASUS mini-ITX mobo. I’m able to run games from NES up to Saturn/Dreamcast at full speed, using demanding cores like Mesen, Bsnes, Beetle Saturn, etc. Perhaps support for that particular iGPU is better than others?

As i said, lots of intel GPUs won’t even act the same way depending on the OS, they also tend to report they are compatible with OpenGL X.Y even when they are actually missing a ton of extension from OpenGL X.Y .

OS-dependent + incomplete OpenGL implementation for a specific version makes them objectively the worst of the worst gpus.

Maybe, but in the first place none of those cores is a hardware-accelerated core except flycast, and afaik flycast is only using legacy OpenGL stuff if you aren’t enabling per-pixel alpha sorting.