New CRT shader from Guest + CRT Guest Advanced updates

[DevonCM]

You’re describing the small height of the subpixel elements and the resulting large gap between lines. This does look bad zoomed in and probably isn’t ideal for this CRT stuff, but in normal use I think it actually helps give a smoother appearance since the pixels end up being “dots” more than “blocks” and the distance between gives it a sort of texture.

Also you might have missed it but the newer monitors coming out are using the “Gen 2.5” panels with an updated/improved RGWB layout, and late next year they’ll be making “Gen 3.5” with RGB. So don’t write off OLED just because of what you’re seeing of my year-and-a-half-old first-generation display.

Modern sample-and-hold displays have a lot of issues, but considering what’s currently available there’s very little reason to choose something other than an OLED for most gaming/media use. And I’d take all of these subpixel oddities and burn-in/brightness concerns every single day over the backlight-bleed IPS-glow non-black LCD trash that I had to use for so many years.

[Cyber]

@DevonCM

zoomed in

@DevonCM

but in normal use I think it actually helps give a smoother appearance since the pixels end up being “dots” more than “blocks” and the distance between gives it a sort of texture.

@DevonCM & @sonkun

One thing to add to this is that in order to capture this level of detail of something so bright, the ISO (light sensitivity) on the camera had to be set to a very low value. Under normal viewing and photography conditions most of these elements would be so glowy (bloomy) that they would just blend together and look like one single light. Sort of like how you don’t notice the individual LED modules on LED bulbs.

As a matter of fact if the ISO isn’t lowered its almost impossible to capture the mask in an area with both light and dark detail since the mask would be lost in the bloom on the brighter objects.

This is sort of how our eyes might see things on a real CRT. It doesn’t mean that the CRT Mask (and Scanlines) are not there on very bright objects on a real CRT though. So some preset creators try to setup their presets with the Mask and Scanlines still fully intact and allow light, optics and physics to create the dynamics and illusions which cause them to appear to blend, bloom or glow, while others tend to bake these effects into their presets and that requires additional subpixels to be engaged in order to display these elements. Each approach has its pros and cons.

[sonkun]

@DevonCM

late next year they’ll be making “Gen 3.5” with RGB.

That’s pretty much all I’d want out of a OLED if I’m using that for retro gaming and shaders, I at least need something as simple as getting a standard RGB subpixel correct on my display if I’m trying to match the subpixels of a crt of the 90’s using RetroArch shaders. Some may see that as a small trivial issue but I see that as the foundation in itself, if it’s not plain RGB I simply don’t want to deal with it. I refuse to give in to these new OLEDS just because it’s the “new thing” and has perfect blacks and all that other stuff. My views on this matter stem based on the fact I would be using a OLED 90 percent of the time retro gaming on it with guest.r’s godlike shader using masks 6, 10 and 12. In any case I’ll be looking forward to that when those come around.

[Cyber]

@sonkun

OLED 90 percent of the time retro gaming on it with guest.r’s godlike shader

OLED and 90 percent of the time retro gaming on it with Guest.R’s awesome Shader might be a no no due to risk of burn-in.

With OLED displays you have to vary your content. Like any one thing too much at your own peril.

Have you considered looking at MiniLED TVs/Displays?

@Nesguy copped an awesome deal on 1,000 nit one a little while ago and has been very satisfied but not necessarily with the local dimming when using CRT shaders.

This has me a bit skeptical and I know from reviews that local dimming performance can vary a lot between different models and manufacturers.

Sony seems to have made a game changing breakthrough with thier finely detailed back light control and processing, so I’m thinking that perhaps that might be the low bar where MiniLED is just better overall than OLED for these things but it isn’t cheap.

There are contenders like TCL and Hisense which are really pushing the envelope as well when it comes to number of dimming zones and brightness but it remains to be seen how they match up on reliability, build quality and processing in a CRT Shader scenario.

I’m thinking that maybe next hear year might be a huge year for this technology as others try to catch up to Sony and or mimic or compete with their advancements.

Even so, what if the Sony panels might end up being BGR instead of RGB?

Display manufacturers don’t care about what people like us want out of their displays.

[sonkun]

@Cyber

Have you considered looking at MiniLED TVs/Displays?

Never looked into those. A quick search says they’re brighter than OLED. Regardless if they’re not standard RGB I wouldn’t waste my money or time on it.

@Cyber

Even so, what if the Sony panels might end up being BGR instead of RGB?

Then I will not be buying anything, it’s RGB or nothing lol. This whole generation of new tvs will go right by me and I’ll just continue using my standard 4k LCD and I’ll be just fine with that. But let’s see what the future brings.

[Cyber]

@sonkun

Regardless if they’re not standard RGB I wouldn’t waste my money or time on it.

All wouldn’t use the same panels just like standard LCDs as a matter of fact they are standard LCDs just with more advanced backlighting.

https://youtube.com/shorts/bJJoAiZSvc0?si=PlrFpTNJoKvJQRPd

The thing is you can turn a BGR panel into an RGB panel if you rotate it 180°. You’ll have to rotate your content like your desktop using software though. Windows can do that.

The 65" Sony Bravia 9 is actually BGR. It uses a VA panel and many if not most of those are BGR. Most IPS panels seem to be RGB. Some Mini LED TVs use IPS.

Sony BRAVIA 9 QLED Review (K-65XR90, K-75XR90, K-85XR90)

It’s insane how much brighter it is than a typical OLED TV though. You can read all about it in that review above. LG has a new Mini LED TV on the market as well (QNED90T) but I don’t think it’s Local Dimming algorithm is as good as Sony’s (It’s not). It might be IPS (most models seem to be VA (BGR) but some might include IPS (RGB). I’m looking forward to RTINGS’ upcoming review on it. (It’s out and I’m not too impressed).

The 75" Model of this TV uses an ADS Pro panel this is similar to IPS and should be RGB.

Hisense U8/U8K Review (55U8K, 65U8K, 75U8K, 85U8K, 100U8K)

While OLED has its advantages for CRT Shaders, high brightness LED/LCDs and MiniLEDs haven’t really been tried and tested yet and high brightness is one of the ingredients that might be missing for a much more realistic CRT Shader experience. It’s something I would like to experience first hand.

Typical OLED TV Peak 2% Window brightness tops out at around 800 nits.

This Sony Bravia 9 can do almost 3,000nits in a 2% Window! Can you imagine how amazing Shaders will look with that kind of illumination?

Then there should be more than enough headroom for BFI while remaining extre bright. I remember @Nesguy was dreaming about these things when he wrote his thread on the best TVs for CRT Emulation some years ago.

Well we have the brightness now!

[Jackie_Fresco]

Hi. Can someone please explain mask types? I need settings for 1080p. Also I use both retroarch and reshade port and mask types go by different numbers in them, so I’m a bit confused. Which mask type is a good aperture grille or slot mask for 1080p?

[guest.r]

Hey!

Aperture masks are (for 1080p): 0, 2, 5, 6, 9 (RGB) and 7 & 8 (not RGB, but black-white)

High TVL of these are: 0, 5, 7, 9

Lower TVL are: 2, 6, 8

You can use slotmask with any of these, just increase both strengths. Maybe you can lower the slotmask height for 1080p + scanline mode.

Mask 1 is already a RGB mask + low width slotmask, just to mention it.

[Cyber]

@Jackie_Fresco

reshade port and mask types go by different numbers in them, so I’m a bit confused.

Don’t be confused. Re-Shade doesn’t like 0 for parameter values so the Masks just start at 1 instead of 0.

[Jackie_Fresco]

Thank you for clearing that up, mask 1 (mask 2 in reshade) looks pretty good in 1080p. As for aperture grille, 7 looks best imo.

[md2mcb]

Guest, despite not being accurate, I like b&w masks, they give me a cleaner look to me. But could I be doing something wrong about RGB masks? Do they need a trick to work properly or is just a matter of preference? I know about the RGB/BGR setting, though it makes no difference in my case. I’m on a 1080p screen.

[guest.r]

Good RGB aperture setups are always a somewhat artistic challenge. I would take a look at @Hari-82 presets for 1080p, they are really nice.

Otherwise, they look best with advanced mask mitigation like bloom or/and halation + scanline tweaking. You should set mask strengths to full before using bloom/halation.

[md2mcb]

Thank you for your tips.

[BendBombBoom]

I found a very minor issue. Magic glow settings 1 and 2 cause a black outline around bright whites in some instances. Here it is in the opening of Phantasy Star 1 on the light blue houses in the background and the same shot with no shader:

[guest.r]

It’s a “feature”, not a bug. This is how transitions are handled. I doubt iI’ll code it in a different manner anytime soon. It usually helps to adjust magic glow distribution or strengths, combined with glow pass taps radius or fine sampling.

[guest.r]

New Release Version (2024-09-06-r1):

Notable changes:

• New NTSC coloring/rainbowing implementation.
• It’s now on OFF/ON switch due to the discrete features of the overhaul.

Download link:

https://mega.nz/file/QowBEb4a#O1RKXJYKFFaSDyuQ4W_CceVIXnClJG7XV2dhA1h2YBE

[ynnad4]

thank you as always, master

[ynnad4]

By any means boss, is there a way to get this type of color temperature like this guy who recorded a small Sonic 2 gameplay ? @sonkun @PlainOldPants

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Sega Genesis Real Hardware 60fps Demonstration

The thing is that those buildings that are Green on the background now turned Yellowish. Dont know if may be the console or TV color switches. I tried many times with LUT but still can’t get something close to it. Since you’re way better knowing these coded values, you may get an idea to get closer to it. Those yellowish colors look so cool because I remember an old CRT TV that could get something like this but on Sonic 1.

I’ve tried with LUT files but still haven’t got something remotely close to it.

I could only use LUT in case didn’t involve any rainbow banding, but never could add it up to any of your presets or from other people.

This is the closest I could get with LUT file, if ever useful.

Would appreciate the help, if ever possible.

[PlainOldPants]

@ynnad4

By any means boss, is there a way to get this type of color temperature like this guy who recorded a small Sonic 2 gameplay ?

On my “patchy” presets in the shaders_slang/ntsc folder, scroll down the settings and change the DEmodulator or jungle chip (NOT the modulator!) to Rec. 709. Rec. 709 is used by some NTSC video capture devices, and I assume 2000s CRTs with YPbPr component were using it too. I’m no expert though, just an early 20s person in uni.

[sonkun]

Wow so many notifications and goodies being posted this Friday. I’m off to test this baby out PRONTO and will report back with my first impressions.

This also must be some kind of alignment with the moon and the stars or something in the universe cause once again you post up a new update and then Retro Crisis posts up a new video lol.

Best Dithering Shaders - Updated SONKUN RetroArch CRT Presets

Edit: OK so after some quick testing first two things I noticed is that the rainbows do appear to look different from the previous implementation and that I don’t have to enable a new setting to activate them again which saves me the trouble.

After some running around with Sonic I noticed these weird looking “vertical lines” in the water that wasn’t there before.

Here’s my composite rainbow preset:

Here’s my rf preset with the “ntsc artifacts” setting turned up to 5.00 (I noticed the lines become more severe the higher I turned that setting up so I took this pic as a test and I was right):

Then finally the same rf preset with the artifacts setting on 0:

Notice the lines aren’t there anymore.

Besides that I did also notice a small drop in frames of about 4 to 5 down from 60 fps.