New sonkun crt guest advanced hd presets thread

[ynnad4]

Hey there again, buddy.

I’ve got another cam with a bit better recording so you can see a 35 years old NES RF recording on Kirby.

4 videos kirby adventure nes 35yo videos

Not sure if the cable is too old but this has always been an issue for me with another cable as well. It always brings this type of static or interference or “Noise”. I dont know how people really call it. But this RF connection combines all the effects from Composite video + crazy static all over the screen + Rainbow lines moving very fast around it as well.

At least with this quick CRT guest advanced NTSC preset @guest.r I can get somewhat the result on Screen: 1920x1080 flat screen HD.

Certain values are still needed to be set on Core (this case was Mesen) for Color palette + overscans.

Maybe can get something done about the rainbow lines moving very quickily but need to test a bit more:

The static being shown up in here its not 100% accurate, but I think its better than nothing. Like stated before, RF connection is a whole next level in getting artifacts on screen. It’s by far way worse to look at rather than just getting Dithering or Rainbow banding for Composite video… I mean, if this could ever be achieved with RF presets on RetroArch, it would be the pinacle of accuracy… Yet, its still unfortunate that there’re so few RF presets around, considering that this connection was the one by DEFAULT that came back then with 90s consoles.

#reference "shaders_slang/crt/crt-guest-advanced-ntsc.slangp"
cust_artifacting = "2.000000"
cust_fringing = "0.000000"
ntsc_phase = "3.000000"
ntsc_sat = "0.900000"
ntsc_rainbow1 = "1.000000"
ntsc_cscale = "3.350001"
addnoised = "0.760000"
noiseresd = "5.000000"
noisetype = "1.000000"

The image… would describe it as permanently being on vibration. I could not find any other feature around aside of the so called " Noise ", but this is next level of poor quality, beyond the Dithering that already comes from Composite video. I dont know this type of vibration on screen its what causes to showcase HORIZONTAL rainbow lines the whole time. Its wonderful.

[ynnad4]

Just replicated to an extent the effect with very fast horizontal rainbow lines with this “new?” NTSC preset that I dont know who did. But it allows through the options to set horizontal rainbow lines with fast speed. It’s a preset called as: patchy-genplusgx

Still, it doesn’t have NOISE available so can’t get close enough to the RF effect. In case you may be interested on this effect @guest.r - Indeed, the rainbow effect is different on NES. But it behaves quite differently with these artifacts on RF.

The static or Noise i get on screen, its more likely about grey-black lines next to each other, instead of the usual “squares” i can get with Noise that’s being avaiable on CRT guest NTSC preset… or some other shaders as well.

one more video: 2015_0318_214917_174.MP4

same overscan + color palette from above

shaders = "8"
feedback_pass = "0"
shader0 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-pass1.slang"
filter_linear0 = "false"
wrap_mode0 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod0 = "1000"
mipmap_input0 = "false"
alias0 = ""
float_framebuffer0 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer0 = "false"
scale_type_x0 = "source"
scale_x0 = "8.000000"
scale_type_y0 = "source"
scale_y0 = "1.000000"
shader1 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-pass2.slang"
filter_linear1 = "false"
wrap_mode1 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod1 = "1000"
mipmap_input1 = "false"
alias1 = ""
float_framebuffer1 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer1 = "false"
scale_type_x1 = "source"
scale_x1 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y1 = "source"
scale_y1 = "1.000000"
shader2 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-pass3.slang"
filter_linear2 = "false"
wrap_mode2 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod2 = "1000"
mipmap_input2 = "false"
alias2 = ""
float_framebuffer2 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer2 = "false"
scale_type_x2 = "source"
scale_x2 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y2 = "source"
scale_y2 = "1.000000"
shader3 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-pass4.slang"
filter_linear3 = "false"
wrap_mode3 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod3 = "1000"
mipmap_input3 = "false"
alias3 = ""
float_framebuffer3 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer3 = "false"
scale_type_x3 = "source"
scale_x3 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y3 = "source"
scale_y3 = "1.000000"
shader4 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-pass5.slang"
filter_linear4 = "false"
wrap_mode4 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod4 = "1000"
mipmap_input4 = "false"
alias4 = ""
float_framebuffer4 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer4 = "false"
scale_type_x4 = "source"
scale_x4 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y4 = "source"
scale_y4 = "1.000000"
shader5 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/trilinearLUT-switchable.slang"
filter_linear5 = "false"
wrap_mode5 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod5 = "1000"
mipmap_input5 = "false"
alias5 = ""
float_framebuffer5 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer5 = "false"
scale_type_x5 = "source"
scale_x5 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y5 = "source"
scale_y5 = "1.000000"
shader6 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/linear-to-srgb.slang"
filter_linear6 = "false"
wrap_mode6 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod6 = "1000"
mipmap_input6 = "false"
alias6 = ""
float_framebuffer6 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer6 = "false"
scale_type_x6 = "source"
scale_x6 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y6 = "source"
scale_y6 = "1.000000"
shader7 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-lottes-fast.slang"
wrap_mode7 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input7 = "false"
alias7 = ""
float_framebuffer7 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer7 = "false"
pn_genesis_jailbar_enable = "1.000000"
pn_genesis_jailbar_offset = "0.312500"
pn_scanline_dur = "47.699997"
pn_color_amplitude = "0.400000"
pn_color_init_offset = "0.700000"
pn_color_line_offset = "0.160000"
pn_color_screen_offset = "0.180000"
pn_modulator_luma_filter_type = "2.000000"
pn_modulator_luma_res = "220.000000"
pn_rgb_smear_enable = "1.000000"
pn_rgb_smear_rate = "1.150000"
MASK = "0.000000"
MASK_INTENSITY = "0.000000"
SCANLINE_THINNESS = "0.000000"
TRINITRON_CURVE = "1.000000"
textures = "PhosphorSamplerLUT1;PhosphorSamplerLUT2;PhosphorSamplerLUT3;PhosphorSamplerLUT4;PhosphorSamplerLUT5;PhosphorSamplerLUT6"
PhosphorSamplerLUT1 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/P22_80s_D65.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT1_linear = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT1_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT1_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT2 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/P22_90s_D65.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT2_linear = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT2_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT2_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT3 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/P22_J_D65.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT3_linear = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT3_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT3_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT4 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/TrinitronP22_D65.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT4_linear = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT4_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT4_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT5 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/P22_J_D93.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT5_linear = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT5_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT5_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT6 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/TrinitronP22_D93.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT6_linear = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT6_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT6_mipmap = "false"

another link with 5 kirby RF videos: https://disk.yandex.ru/d/9XiNPOqXXRhYSg

[sonkun]

@ynnad4

4 videos kirby adventure nes 35yo videos

Can you post these videos to a different site? They’re asking me to sign up just to watch some videos and I’m not doing that.

@ynnad4

Just replicated to an extent the effect with very fast horizontal rainbow lines with this “new?” NTSC preset that I dont know who did. But it allows through the options to set horizontal rainbow lines with fast speed. It’s a preset called as: patchy-genplusgx

Yeah I came across that new shader the other day myself, it looks interesting.

Just for reference when I made my rf presets I took inspiration from this video:

Framemeister Comparison: Sega Genesis RF VS SCART cables

Although my presets appear even sharper than that but you get the point.

[Tokumeino]

Hi, I’m new to the forum and I’m trying to understand these CRT shader things. Quite a rabbithole

On a 960p screen (handheld), will this shader work as well as the 1080p screenshots here ? Or event better since 960p is perfect x4 240p ?

[sonkun]

Most likely won’t look exactly the same since 960p is not as detailed as 1080p but they should work.

[JosepMC]

That YCC setting does nothing and also is meaningless on my TV as only supports 8-bit color. And as guest.r himself said, it also happens on PC if you set the driver to D3D11.

I just went back to your March 2024 presets with crt-guest-advanced-2024-02-29-release1 on Xbox, and noticed that Diplay Color Space was also set to -1/709 back then without displaying this issue. Could it be some sort of regression along the way since then?

@sonkun

Nice. That’s exactly what the S-Video presets were made for.

Yup, though I think I’ll stick with shadow mask instead of aperture grille. I’m digging the more softer/less sharp image quality.

[Tokumeino]

Thanks for answering. I’ve looked at many screenshots here and I am really very impressed about what you managed to without integer scaling !!!

About my 960p thing, I’m mostly afraid of issues with the mask not scaling properly. Does it make sense or will the mask just be fine ?

[ynnad4]

i’ve edited the post, does this new one work ?

5 kirby videos on real NES RF

Яндекс

[sonkun]

@JosepMC

I just went back to your March 2024 presets with crt-guest-advanced-2024-02-29-release1 on Xbox, and noticed that Diplay Color Space was also set to -1/709 back then without displaying this issue. Could it be some sort of regression along the way since then?

The only thing I can think of that I at least changed, and this only goes strictly for the composite and rf presets is that I merged the ntsc adaptive shader from the ntsc shader folder with guest.r’s hd shader, not sure if that happens with just those presets or all of them. Other than that I’m not sure what happened myself between my old pack release to now.

@JosepMC

Yup, though I think I’ll stick with shadow mask instead of aperture grille. I’m digging the more softer/less sharp image quality.

Gotta say that Sonic shot looks sexy lol. I also been using Shadow Mask a lot more lately myself for the same reason especially on those 8-16 bit systems which I used for pretty much all those pics above. I gotta try Shadow Mask out on some PS1/Saturn era games.

@Tokumeino

Thanks for answering. I’ve looked at many screenshots here and I am really very impressed about what you managed to without integer scaling !!!

You’re welcome and yes we don’t believe in interger scaling around these neck of the woods, not cropping anything for anything lol.

@Tokumeino

About my 960p thing, I’m mostly afraid of issues with the mask not scaling properly. Does it make sense or will the mask just be fine ?

Try it out and see, post a screenshot while you’re at it so I can see too.

@ynnad4

i’ve edited the post, does this new one work ?

5 kirby videos on real NES RF

Man that is some dirty looking RF there especially the two videos on the right, it looks like Kirby is walking through a static image lol. That’s the kind of RF preset you want to reproduce??

[ynnad4]

I dont know if other people get this type of looking through RF but I’ve got this forever on the NES at least.

But this is what I referred to getting a terrible video signal, besides the already existing dithering & rainbow banding, besides on NES is different.

Yeah, this is the type of looking I was referring to. But there’re barely any presets around which I dont know why, considering this is the way by DEFAULT most of people would have experienced, early on 90s.

[sonkun]

I don’t know man that that RF signal is reeeeeally excessive, especially those last two videos lol. I wonder if anyone else in here experienced RF that looked like that cause I don’t remember it looking THAT bad. In any case once guest.r releases his next update I’m coming straight for you and we’re gonna experiment on some RF looks.

[Superdonkeyjack]

Check Plain Old Pants thread. He might have something you’re looking for.

[ynnad4]

Thank you, buddy. Really appreciate.

[RetroCrisis]

@sonkun

like that cause I don’t remember it looking THAT bad. In any case once guest.r releases his next update I’m coming straight for you and we’re gonna experiment on some RF looks.

Agreed. Looks more like a VHS recording from RF. I use RF on my Mega Drive and it’s a lot cleaner. But then again, different TV’s process RF differently, so it’s entirely possible I guess.

[sonkun]

Yeah I think it all comes down to different tvs, hell even different cables. I believe he said up above his RF cable was missing some pins, I’m sure that played a part in how his image was presented on his screen. Nevertheless I’ll try playing around once guest.r releases his next update, I’m more curious about how he plans to change the ntsc settings up more than anything.

[Superdonkeyjack]

I love that RF signal alot too. I was using RF Modulator until like June 2000 when I was 12 and I had 5th gen consoles. So I understand where you are coming from. I hope one day Sonkun and friends can make a great version of that Dirty RF and all.

[ynnad4]

It’s literally a 1920x1080 full HD flat screen. The console is 35 years old. Yet, I dont know if its the cable or this overall is the experience for people playing on RF-NES gameplays. But the cable seem in good conditions… And this is not the first time I have seen this level of static-interference-noise on screen.

I used to have a genesis console with a RF cable that gave tons of this looking as well. Its like the screen is permanently vibrating.

[ynnad4]

This RF cable is just one pin, straight up to connect on the console and one pin to connect on TV-cable signal. And its a 1920x1080 flat screen full HD like stated above, but the TV is in good conditions besides being from 2013.

[guest.r]

@sonkun

In any case once guest.r releases his next update I’m coming straight for you and we’re gonna experiment on some RF looks.

I have made some good progress. Test version doesn’t break checkerboard patterns and “prior rainbow effects”, but is quite “rainbowy”, somewhat more colorful.

I think I’ll make a release version soon.

(looks better while running full FPS):

[PlainOldPants]

I’m in a hurry for a meeting, so here’s some footage of Kirby (NES)and sonic 1 (genesis model 1) both over RF. I’ll post my full reply here in a few hours. Sorry about the shitty video compression, I didn’t know my phone was doing that.

https://youtu.be/sZASXIbbc5o

https://youtu.be/hknZSOALNF4

@PlainOldPants

I haven’t downloaded guest’s latest shader yet, but the version I have downloaded still emulates NTSC in a slightly weird way. You see, the way consoles like the Genesis were reducing their signal artifacts was by filtering the luma (Y) and chroma (IQ or UV) signals before adding them together into a composite signal, and the way a CRT reduced its artifacts was by doing almost the same kind of filters, but for separating instead of adding. The ntsc-adaptive shaders in guest’s CRT shader takes shortcuts for better performance, by never fully adding the signals together, instead just cross-talking them, like luma = luma + fringing * chroma, chroma = chroma + artifacting * luma, and then it does those separation filters using hardcoded, precomputed arrays. Normally, composite signals with lower interference also have to be blurrier, while sharper signals have to have more interference, but using ntsc-adaptive, you can create composite signals that are physically impossible. My newest custom NTSC shader is the only one I know of that does the whole filter, add, and filter again process instead of shortcutting it.

As for RF, my understanding is that the console’s RF is the same as its composite, but with a couple additional step, which is to modulate it with a carrier frequency and to modulate audio onto it somehow, neither of which I understand fully. The thing that causes RF and Composite to look different mostly is the CRT, not the console, since the CRT is doing some different method for chroma/luma separation when using RF versus when using Composite.

My best guess is that while a more elaborate comb filter can be used for composite due to composite being more precise without interference/noise, RF might have its color carrier frequency distorted lower or higher and affected more by noise, so the CRT has to stick to older notch filters. Older CRTs probably used only notch filters, but used a more precise notch for composite than for RF. All of this is speculation, and I’m still in a hurry.