PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16/Turbo Duo also does 3 phase as well as 2 phase, at least according to NTSC Adaptive and CRT-Guest-Advanced-NTSC shaders.
It utilizes multiple resolutions often, sort of like the PSX.
PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16/Turbo Duo also does 3 phase as well as 2 phase, at least according to NTSC Adaptive and CRT-Guest-Advanced-NTSC shaders.
It utilizes multiple resolutions often, sort of like the PSX.
Please be really careful about this. While I don’t know whether or not the PC-Engine has this same “3 phase” pattern as the NES and SNES (To be honest, I haven’t looked at the PC-Engine’s composite), I seriously don’t believe that any revision of the Model 1 and 2 Genesis/MegaDrives were ever outputting a 3 phase pattern, ever. My Genesis doesn’t even output 2-phase.
I seriously don’t mean any offense to anyone here, but the following line of code is how NTSC-adaptive determines whether to use its 3-phase or 2-phase pattern:
float phase = (global.ntsc_phase < 1.5) ? ((OriginalSize > 300.0) ? 2.0 : 3.0) : ((global.ntsc_phase > 2.5) ? 3.0 : 2.0);
In other words, it’s only looking at the horizontal resolution of the screen. If it’s 300 pixels or less, it’s 3-phase. If it’s 301 pixels or more, it’s 2-phase. There’s no complicated magic to determine whether the real console would output 3-phase or 2-phase. There’s not even an option for the Genesis/MegaDrive’s signal, which I like to call “1 phase”.
These terms “2 phase” and “3 phase” originate from an older NTSC implementation called Maister NTSC, which used precomputed, hardcoded filters from MATLAB for better performance and clarity. NTSC-Adaptive uses those same filters and phase offsets, but with additional features to improve the overall effect, like the anti-ringing, sharpening, and rainbow banding settings, still with clean, fast code. Doing some archeology, these MATLAB-generated filters are over 10 years old: https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders/commit/02d056220939892a5a4b2fbfd6d83101c318aed7#diff-88b173c57ef901ae0104e2f3533403d5bd10eea1359ff186a689c577bef94b49R6 https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders/commit/c31348649421c085c2c0c6013d3ca57fa9718e0e#diff-0b4d32fb579074853dc6d2d41a2a6b645c40597ee1385eb518ddeebd9adcdd6eR45
This weirdness with the NTSC shaders in shaders_slang, combined with this frustratingly long list of NES palettes, is what ultimately led me to get a real NES and Genesis with EverDrives in the first place. As a 2000s person, I’d only ever played these games through emulation, so I didn’t know what they really looked like when they came out.
Which is why I want to get my hands on original hardware again myself. Seeing Virtua Racing like that indeed throws me off, that pic alone makes me want to see how it outputs on a model 1 Gens with RF output. Composite didn’t exist to me back in the 90’s literally until the 5th generation consoles came on the scene with the composite cable packaged in the box, every system I owned before that all came packaged with the RF cable so that was my experience. I have the main 3 systems of the 5th generation (saturn, ps1 and n64) right now all with their respective original composite cables and a crt to play any one of them for testing purposes, it’s the systems before that generation that I haven’t seen in ages on a crt that I need to see again on real hardware.
I can’t load Virtua Racing on my EverDrive X3 since it needs some special chip, but here’s the 240p test suite with 320px and 256px resolutions. https://youtube.com/watch?v=tN-B6PNGwLI It is a “1 phase” pattern.
We can also see that this RF-only 1989 CRT has no comb filter, because the rainbow banding doesn’t disappear on the checkerboard pattern. CRTs with a comb filter filter out the rainbow banding from checkerboard patterns, but not from vertical bar patterns.
Least I know which game I’m getting first when I get a Mega Drive again. I’m more curious than ever to see Virtua Racing on a crt playing on the actual system. Guess it will still vary on the kind of crt I hook it up to as well.
This is why I made sure to qualify my statement and have in the past questioned whether or not the logic behind determining the correct phase for the systems used by the NTSC shaders was in fact correct.
I’m sure I can dig up my old posts with those questions.
So definitely no offense taken here. We’re actually on the same page.
Hi @PlainOldPants, as for Sega Master System, I’ve tried using your Patchy-Genesis.slangp inside ntsc folder, but for some reason, it didn’t look like I remember. I had a Master System in the 90’s. Surprisingly, using Patchy-snes.slangp I managed to get something very good and it remind me exactly the sms visual of that time. I had to change some params, though, because the default interference/noise was just too much for what I remember. It’s important to tell that at the time I was used to fine tunning my RF consoles to the best settings, so noise was minimized and my father had a 20" Panasonic CRT TV at the time, and it probably was too good in picture.
So, here’s my preset for master system the way I remember. Noise is noticeable only in some dark color shades. Fringing is subtle, so that it doesn’t distract you. No idea if I’m doing something stupid about the parameters, but here it is, anyway:
shaders = "16"
feedback_pass = "0"
shader0 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-encode-y-c.slang"
filter_linear0 = "false"
wrap_mode0 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod0 = "1000"
mipmap_input0 = "false"
alias0 = ""
float_framebuffer0 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer0 = "false"
scale_type_x0 = "source"
scale_x0 = "4.000000"
scale_type_y0 = "source"
scale_y0 = "1.000000"
shader1 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-combine-y-c.slang"
filter_linear1 = "false"
wrap_mode1 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod1 = "1000"
mipmap_input1 = "false"
alias1 = ""
float_framebuffer1 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer1 = "false"
scale_type_x1 = "source"
scale_x1 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y1 = "source"
scale_y1 = "1.000000"
shader2 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-noise.slang"
filter_linear2 = "false"
wrap_mode2 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod2 = "1000"
mipmap_input2 = "false"
alias2 = ""
float_framebuffer2 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer2 = "false"
scale_type_x2 = "source"
scale_x2 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y2 = "source"
scale_y2 = "1.000000"
shader3 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-separate-y-c.slang"
filter_linear3 = "false"
wrap_mode3 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod3 = "1000"
mipmap_input3 = "false"
alias3 = ""
float_framebuffer3 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer3 = "false"
scale_type_x3 = "source"
scale_x3 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y3 = "source"
scale_y3 = "1.000000"
shader4 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-decode-y-rmy-bmy.slang"
filter_linear4 = "false"
wrap_mode4 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod4 = "1000"
mipmap_input4 = "false"
alias4 = ""
float_framebuffer4 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer4 = "false"
scale_type_x4 = "source"
scale_x4 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y4 = "source"
scale_y4 = "1.000000"
shader5 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/patchy-ntsc-eotf.slang"
filter_linear5 = "false"
wrap_mode5 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod5 = "1000"
mipmap_input5 = "false"
alias5 = ""
float_framebuffer5 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer5 = "false"
scale_type_x5 = "source"
scale_x5 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y5 = "source"
scale_y5 = "1.000000"
shader6 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/trilinearLUT-switchable.slang"
filter_linear6 = "false"
wrap_mode6 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod6 = "1000"
mipmap_input6 = "false"
alias6 = ""
float_framebuffer6 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer6 = "false"
scale_type_x6 = "source"
scale_x6 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y6 = "source"
scale_y6 = "1.000000"
shader7 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/linear-to-srgb.slang"
filter_linear7 = "false"
wrap_mode7 = "clamp_to_border"
frame_count_mod7 = "1000"
mipmap_input7 = "false"
alias7 = ""
float_framebuffer7 = "true"
srgb_framebuffer7 = "false"
scale_type_x7 = "source"
scale_x7 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y7 = "source"
scale_y7 = "1.000000"
shader8 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/src-fast/crt-royale-first-pass-linearize-crt-gamma-bob-fields.slang"
filter_linear8 = "false"
wrap_mode8 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input8 = "false"
alias8 = "ORIG_LINEARIZED"
float_framebuffer8 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer8 = "true"
scale_type_x8 = "source"
scale_x8 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y8 = "source"
scale_y8 = "1.000000"
shader9 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/src-fast/crt-royale-scanlines-vertical-interlacing.slang"
filter_linear9 = "true"
wrap_mode9 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input9 = "false"
alias9 = "VERTICAL_SCANLINES"
float_framebuffer9 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer9 = "true"
scale_type_x9 = "source"
scale_x9 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y9 = "viewport"
scale_y9 = "1.000000"
shader10 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/src-fast/crt-royale-mask-resize-vertical.slang"
filter_linear10 = "true"
wrap_mode10 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input10 = "false"
alias10 = ""
float_framebuffer10 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer10 = "false"
scale_type_x10 = "absolute"
scale_x10 = "64"
scale_type_y10 = "viewport"
scale_y10 = "0.062500"
shader11 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/src-fast/crt-royale-mask-resize-horizontal.slang"
filter_linear11 = "false"
wrap_mode11 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input11 = "false"
alias11 = "MASK_RESIZE"
float_framebuffer11 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer11 = "false"
scale_type_x11 = "viewport"
scale_x11 = "0.062500"
scale_type_y11 = "source"
scale_y11 = "1.000000"
shader12 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/src-fast/crt-royale-scanlines-horizontal-apply-mask.slang"
filter_linear12 = "true"
wrap_mode12 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input12 = "false"
alias12 = "MASKED_SCANLINES"
float_framebuffer12 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer12 = "true"
scale_type_x12 = "viewport"
scale_x12 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y12 = "viewport"
scale_y12 = "1.000000"
shader13 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/src-fast/crt-royale-brightpass.slang"
filter_linear13 = "true"
wrap_mode13 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input13 = "false"
alias13 = "BRIGHTPASS"
float_framebuffer13 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer13 = "true"
scale_type_x13 = "viewport"
scale_x13 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y13 = "viewport"
scale_y13 = "1.000000"
shader14 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/src-fast/crt-royale-bloom-vertical.slang"
filter_linear14 = "true"
wrap_mode14 = "clamp_to_border"
mipmap_input14 = "false"
alias14 = ""
float_framebuffer14 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer14 = "true"
scale_type_x14 = "source"
scale_x14 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y14 = "source"
scale_y14 = "1.000000"
shader15 = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/src-fast/crt-royale-bloom-horizontal-reconstitute.slang"
filter_linear15 = "true"
wrap_mode15 = "clamp_to_edge"
mipmap_input15 = "false"
alias15 = ""
float_framebuffer15 = "false"
srgb_framebuffer15 = "true"
scale_type_x15 = "source"
scale_x15 = "1.000000"
scale_type_y15 = "source"
scale_y15 = "1.000000"
pn_signal_res = "4.000000"
pn_width_uncropped = "256.000000"
pn_height_uncropped = "240.000000"
pn_rgb_blur_enable = "1.000000"
pn_scanline_dur = "47.700000"
pn_color_init_offset = "0.000000"
pn_color_line_offset = "0.333333"
pn_color_screen_offset = "0.333333"
pn_color_screen_offset_modulo = "2.000000"
pn_modulator_luma_filter_type = "-1.000000"
pn_modulator_chroma_filter_type = "0.000000"
pn_demodulator_std = "0.000000"
pn_gamma_type = "0.000000"
pn_connection_type = "-1.000000"
pn_noise_severity = "0.400000"
pn_noise_counter = "200.000000"
beam_min_sigma = "0.150000"
beam_max_sigma = "0.270000"
mask_type = "1.000000"
textures = "PhosphorSamplerLUT1;PhosphorSamplerLUT2;PhosphorSamplerLUT3;PhosphorSamplerLUT4;PhosphorSamplerLUT5;PhosphorSamplerLUT6;mask_grille_texture_small;mask_slot_texture_small;mask_shadow_texture_small"
PhosphorSamplerLUT1 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/P22_80s_D65.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT1_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT1_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT2 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/P22_90s_D65.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT2_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT2_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT3 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/P22_J_D65.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT3_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT3_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT4 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/TrinitronP22_D65.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT4_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT4_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT5 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/P22_J_D93.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT5_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT5_mipmap = "false"
PhosphorSamplerLUT6 = "shaders_slang/ntsc/shaders/patchy-ntsc/TrinitronP22_D93.png"
PhosphorSamplerLUT6_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
PhosphorSamplerLUT6_mipmap = "false"
mask_grille_texture_small = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/TileableLinearApertureGrille15Wide8And5d5SpacingResizeTo64BGR.png"
mask_grille_texture_small_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
mask_grille_texture_small_mipmap = "false"
mask_slot_texture_small = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/TileableLinearSlotMaskTall15Wide9And4d5Horizontal9d14VerticalSpacingResizeTo64BGRshifted.png"
mask_slot_texture_small_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
mask_slot_texture_small_mipmap = "false"
mask_shadow_texture_small = "shaders_slang/crt/shaders/crt-royale/TileableLinearShadowMaskEDPResizeTo64.png"
mask_shadow_texture_small_wrap_mode = "clamp_to_border"
mask_shadow_texture_small_mipmap = "false"
Screens: https://ibb.co/album/V3mb4p
There is no good NTSC Master System footage online at all. All the Master System gameplay videos on YouTube either are over RGB, over a Genesis’s composite, over an unspecified console’s (probably a Genesis’s) composite, or just recorded by a camera in shitty quality. I just need someone to upload a video capture of the SMS, preferrably an earlier one without the CXA1145. Prove to me that the NTSC SMS isn’t some 4chan hoax.
I can’t find a schematic for the NTSC Master System either, but there is a schematic for the PAL master system floating around. It has the same Sony CXA1145 setup as the early Genesis consoles, with the same inductor/capacitor filters on the signal, but I’ve read elsewhere that earlier NTSC Master Systems have a superior circuit using an older Sony chip.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that late NTSC Master System consoles had the same composite as the Genesis. Considering the Master System has a width of 256 pixels, there’s a good possibility it has the same phase pattern as the SNES, just with reduced artifacts and increased blur.
What that does mean @Hyllian is that you probably want to turn off the bilinear RGB blur (that’s really just a SNES thing), and change the modulator luma filter type to -2 (if that’s even in my latest upload), unless this looks too different from what you remember. For colors that look more like Grade, you can change my shader’s white point to 9300K, enable chromatic adaptation, and set the phosphors to either P22-J or Trinitron P22.
There are also 2 more tiny fixes I need to make in my code, particularly the Master System’s “blue lift” and the exact right SNES color carrier frequency–My 3-phase pattern currently is just slightly wrong. Once I do these 2 fixes, I’ll upload my latest version. This update is also going to calibrate the optional US red pushes better than before, and it’s going to add Grade’s 8500K white point.
The No Swear Gamer records from hardware, you could ask him about specifics via Youtube.
Here’s another composite capture, from Japanese hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MHZDmmnkao
And here is another composite capture.The description says it’s “the original Master System”, there are also links where the same game (Shinobi) is demonstrated using the composite outputs of the Analogue NT Mini and the Genesis 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLWZoEgjNnU
Thank you a lot. I saw a couple from The No Swear Gamer and didn’t know whether it was an original SMS or a Genesis, but those other 2 are probably original SMS consoles. They look like they’re the same as the Genesis’ video signal, except, comparing these two videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=creDKP43oCI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLWZoEgjNnU the SMS and Genesis have different colors.
@Hyllian I’m questioning your memory a little bit. All of these videos have the Genesis “1-phase” pattern.
I did a quick search and found a PC-Engine video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sCRJ8ZhoUk It is a “2-phase” pattern.
For PS1, I’m not even going to look up videos. I’m just going to capture my real hardware.
I won’t start working on this stuff just yet. I have other things I need to dedicate more time to at the moment. All I’ll do for now is that tiny 3-phase fix and Grade’s SMS non-linear blue lift. After those things, one more thing in addition to trying to match these consoles is copying cgwg-famicom-geom’s adaptive comb filter.
(Edit: I’m already forgetting the color gamut conversions that I discussed with Chthon last month. The plan is to bake the entire color grading process into an LUT, including the demodulator settings, the gamma, and the phosphor gamut. It’ll be a big jump in quality, but… at that point, someone may as well get a CRT-compatible (!) colorimeter and just sample an entire LUT that way.)
Dunno if useful, but have you seen the composite filter/output comparisons over at the CRTdatabase with the Genesis related tables? For some reason, the original article where the Retrotink’s Notch filter is featured doesn’t seem to be there anymore, (here archived) but there are now explicit comb filter search values there, the filter pictures/tables are still available for Panasonic-ct-20sl15 and Panasonic-ct-20sl14j Edit: They info has now also been taken out from the Panasonic CRT articles.
I can’t say my memory is correct. In fact, I doubt I can recover all these details from 30 years ago. You have a point.
BTW, dunno if it’s helpful, some schematics you can find here. There are some for sega systems and others for nes and atari clones made in Brazil.
I’ve been procrastinating on this for too long. Tonight, I’m going to sit down and make the very small fixes that I promised about a week ago.
The correct answer is 2.
You sure the answer is not 42?
Hey there, hello boss. Sorry, haven’t made the time to check last version and Noise changes.
I found this new VHS record: Do you know if this VHS 1993 looking in Sonic 2 is actually achievable with current preset version? @sonkun @guest.r
As its stated in description, this is recorded from 1993 with Model 1 Genesis, RF cable, Rainbows and intense blurry looking. This is the perfect way to portray games from that decade. Would love to see it in action around here.
Audio is Mono and output rate seem like 16000 hz to me, in retroarch options.
Jump to 11:18 for rainbows and dithering
Nice!
And this bug with Super sonic next to the signpost. I remember even this happening in a kids TV show where kids played through the phone buttons number. It really could break all game experience if this ever happened!
12:32
Do remember that VHS can also have wow & flutter, tracking, dirty head and dropout artifacts due to physical tape or magnetic degradation.
You might need to add the VHS shader to simulate some of those “effects”.
This update has limited compatibility with presets made for the previous version. The shader passes are changed, so you will have to re-append all your presets. The only settings you need to update are “Tint”, “Color”, and “R-Y/B-Y lowpass type”.
This is a minor update doing several small fixes and improvments. The main things are slightly more accurate 3-phase, better red push default settings, the 8500K whitepoint, the SMS blue lift from Grade, and better performance. I recommend appending (in order) afterglow-update0 and crt-royale-fast. Consider prepending allowed-settings, to bring commonly used settings to the top of the list. https://www.mediafire.com/file/wgg42omjr7da398/patchy-8500k-2024-10-16.zip/file
I am going to put together a document going over this shader’s very long list of settings. Even though there are so many settings, only a few are really used. I’ve been short on time to work on this project lately, but I think this in particular can get done soon enough.
For those planning to make presets with this, I have a few suggestions. First, the settings to look similar-ish to Grade (but slightly more accurate) are Trinitron P22, 8500K, enable chromatic adaptation, r-y/g-y/b-y preset 0, and brightness 0.1. Second, if you use Grade’s BT.1886, you have to disable Auto Contrast and use the “color ramps” test pattern to set your contrast manually. Third, this update changed the default “R-Y/B-Y Lowpass Type” from 2 to 1 to reduce shadows and smearing, but you might consider changing it back to 2 for a more RF-like look. Fourth, for SMS, I recommend picking either one of the two patchy-genesis options, disabling “Genesis Jailbars on Solid Backgrounds”, and changing “Genesis Plus GX color fix” to SMS (2). A couple generic 2phase presets were added for consoles like PC-Engine and PlaySattion 1.
Full list of changes:
Goals for my next update are:
Other future goals:
I just saw these posts about VHS. From some brief searching online, VHS compresses the video an awful lot. The tape itself contains a different kind of composite video signal which uses a much lower chroma subcarrier frequency, and a VCR has to convert standard composite video both to and from this VHS composite signal. This would mean, to update this shader to support VHS, I would make it modulate and demodulate the signal three times, using at least 4 additional shader passes.