Thank you for releasing RetroArch for the xbox, It is really good to have a new emulator like this available
I wondered if it might be considered to add a Simple 2X filter (it makes the image look sharper and blockier)
thank you very much for considering it
The problem with filters is that they slow down performance since they have to be performed on the CPU.
On PS3/360 - we have programmable pixel/fragment shaders that do the filtering for us. Xbox 1’s pre-dates HLSL and it really looks too primitive for me to be able to pull off anything like that.
I’ll have to think about whether it’s wise and/or sustainable to introduce CPU filters. The main problem is that people might not be aware that they slow down performance and thus they’ll start complaining that games are too slow with them on.
thanks, i think that simple 2x could be added but as an on/off setting, like bilinear filtering is, because mednafenx-pce has it and it is still fast enough, and RetroArch uses pce-fast which is a faster core than that, also other cores like snes9x and gens plus should be able to still run at full speed with simple 2x, and it does look a lot better
thanks for considering it
Mednafenx-pce is ancient - these are all ancient versions of emulators that have never been updated after Xport left so there can’t be any fair comparison to the latest versions - even though common wisdom is that Mednafen_PCE Fast is faster, I can’t really know for sure until I’ve tried it and done some speed comparisons.
Nevertheless, I will be doing some speed tests with CPU filters but still feel hesitant about including them.
yes i don’t mean add all things like eagle and hq2x, 3x etc. (i don’t like them anyway and they are very taxing on cpu) but simple2x seems usually not to have too much adverse affect on performance, only noticed a tiny bit of slow down on pcsxbox (playstation emulator) on other xbox emulators like final burn, snes9xbox v6 (that is based on snes9x 1.53 core now) and all of them run very fast with simple2x
thanks for considering it anyway, i’m always am available to test things out if needed
They most likely don’t run very fast at all with those turned on (that is a subjective denominator anyway) - they just use frameskipping to hide away the fact they are not actually running at 60fps at all. I don’t believe in frameskipping when it’s not necessary - it’s just a lose-lose situation after all - that’s why it’s not in any of the cores.
I really don’t feel like adding this knowing the Xbox 1 is already well behind the Wii in terms of performance and adding a bunch of filters would make it even worse when actually running games with them turned on - and worse yet, I would get a lot of complaining by people who can’t help figure out why this or that emulator won’t reach fullspeed because they have this or that filter turned on.
Bottom line, Xbox 1 is too weak CPU-wise for me to be throwing CPU power away on CPU filters - and shader support is not advanced enough to rely on for using shaders as filters, so I’m in a double-bind situation - either solution has big deficiencies that make it not worthwhile. A CRT TV will provide all the filtering you need and Xbox 1 is an old system anyway - playing it on a HDTV is only going to be massively disappointing compared to a CRT.
If a system provides shader support so that we can have filters going on with close to no impact on CPU (like 360/PS3), then RetroArch will be on that system with full-blown shader support. If not, it’s tough luck and you’ll just have to make do with hardware filtering options. I don’t see any middle ground between that - if a system doesn’t have advanced enough shader support (like xbox 1/Wii) - then the CPU (in most cases) is too weak anyway for us to be forcing CPU filters on it anyway.
[quote=“Squarepusher”]
They most likely don’t run very fast at all with those turned on (that is a subjective denominator anyway) - they just use frameskipping to hide away the fact they are not actually running at 60fps at all. I don’t believe in frameskipping when it’s not necessary - it’s just a lose-lose situation after all - that’s why it’s not in any of the cores.
I really don’t feel like adding this knowing the Xbox 1 is already well behind the Wii in terms of performance and adding a bunch of filters would make it even worse when actually running games with them turned on - and worse yet, I would get a lot of complaining by people who can’t help figure out why this or that emulator won’t reach fullspeed because they have this or that filter turned on.
Bottom line, Xbox 1 is too weak CPU-wise for me to be throwing CPU power away on CPU filters - and shader support is not advanced enough to rely on for using shaders as filters, so I’m in a double-bind situation - either solution has big deficiencies that make it not worthwhile. A CRT TV will provide all the filtering you need and Xbox 1 is an old system anyway - playing it on a HDTV is only going to be massively disappointing compared to a CRT.
If a system provides shader support so that we can have filters going on with close to no impact on CPU (like 360/PS3), then RetroArch will be on that system with full-blown shader support. If not, it’s tough luck and you’ll just have to make do with hardware filtering options. I don’t see any middle ground between that - if a system doesn’t have advanced enough shader support (like xbox 1/Wii) - then the CPU (in most cases) is too weak anyway for us to be forcing CPU filters on it anyway.[/quote]
nowhere in any of my posts have i referred to filterS in a plural sense, or even pixel shaders
i’ve talked about 1 filter: simple2x
and after using emulators on xbox since 2002 on CRT, i can categorically state that it does not stop any 8 or 16-bit emulators running at full speed whatsoever, and that it makes the image look very good - nice and sharp on CRT (LCD is useless for xbox 1 - no-one is talking about that)
This was the best picture I managed to arcade (fba-libretto) without sacrificing performance course. Here is street fighter iii 2nd inpact + crt.cg / filter point / dual shader off/16: 9 widescreen. http://imageshack.us/a/img195/4629/1509201215902.jpg
The Xbox 1 up to the point where RetroArch was released was still using stone-age versions of SNES, NES, Mega Drive and arcade emulators (like FBA). So it’s no great surprise that you could run an expensive CPU filter (with frameskipping) at the side and get it to perform well.
However, the results would not be that favorable with modern-day cores - at all.
That being said, if you guys want them that badly, sure, I can throw them in. I just don’t want to hear any requests about ‘making the CPU filters faster’ - because it’s the same reason I feel hesitant about including it in the first place - it can’t really be done.