Sony Megatron Colour Video Monitor

RetroArch Additions Shaders
#679

So many ways HDR can go wrong. You need to have hdmi 2.1 output and input, you need an hdmi 2.1 cable. HDR on in windows 10. Tweak nvidia control panel to output highest color bit depth. Make sure your TV is outputting in PC mode with the correct color depth.

I posted in Guest’s thread with shot of a black and white mask on both 90a and C1. You can spot differences but they are invisible in any reasonable scenario.

Here is the biggest annoyance with both sets: C1 wants to preserve it’s life so it will auto-dim on bright daylight scenes or if it sees anything static on the screen for too long. This is mostly a buzz kill when used as a monitor, but that’s 85% of my use. Just typing out half this post would be enough time for my LG screen to noticeable dim down.

90a auto dimming is like having a 64x64 grid of bright zones. It’s great for sunsets, giant fires, etc. Small bright things you’ll see a glow around it because the dimming zone is big. Samsung tries to correct for this so small bright in dark room things become dim. For example:

1st is my desktop with a gray background. Everything is fine.

01
011305×1024 408 KB

Next is my the same pic with a black background. Look how dim and washed out the icons become. They lose all detail and color.

02
021305×1024 53.5 KB

If I put a white window next to it there is enough light to activate a dimming zone and they become normal against the black background.

03
031305×1024 190 KB

Both screens are amazing, both are annoying. Both are good at HDR and both excel in different HDR scenarios. I feel better knowing why the qn90a is doing what it’s doing and I’ve calibrated it to have nearly the same picture quality as the Oled.

5 Likes
#680

Yeah might be better than WWWX for 600TVL. I’ll put it in and give it a whirl!

1 Like
#681

Yeah the technology all needs a bit of bedding in. The drivers suck a bit at the moment and various bits of software doesn’t play well with it. I do thinking after the initial teething issues though it’s workable.

One thing I would say though is that these displays aren’t really designed for your use case as in to look at a PCs desktop. Don’t get me wrong, they obviously can, but they’re very much geared to being TVs and playing broadcast programmes or film or playing modern games on. You might fair better with an actual PC monitor - but then you don’t get the size.

I’m very hopeful for QD-OLED to solve a lot of the problems and further still Micro-LED and further still the Holodeck. They’re both great displays though - better than my Eve Spectrum - it only has 16 dimming zones. :rofl: (Actually maybe that’s a good thing as it doesn’t have the control to do odd dimming - it’s just uniformly bad)

4 Likes
#682

If it bothers you so much, why not just disable “Local” Dimming on the QN90A and live with the native black levels/contrast ratio?

Or, maybe return both sets and opt for a MiniLED set that has a more refined dimming zones and the correct subpixel structure.

Do note that it is not only LG OLED TVs that use WGBR or other unorthodox subpixel arrangements as this concept of an extra white subpixel has made its way over to some of their IPS LED TVs as well. So be sure to do your research.

On paper, the Hisense U9DG might give the best of both worlds, i.e. if it lives up to the hype and it’s potential in practice though.

Turning off Local Dimming and getting used to the still excellent native Contrast Rstio and Black Level of the QN90A could be a viable option. Note that some of Samsung’s older TVs have better blacks and contrast ratio due to their implementation of Ultra Viewing Angle in their newer sets.

This is what RTINGS.com had to say about the QN90A’s local dimming implementation:

It has 576 dimming zones on the 55 inch model, and the 65 inch model is advertised to have 792 zones, so larger sizes perform better because they have more control over small bright lights.

The local dimming feature in Game Mode is decent. It looks similar to outside of Game Mode, except the dimming zones look bigger and cause the entire screen to look more gray than black, so the local dimming performance in Game Mode is worse. Blooming is a bit more aggressive than outside of Game Mode, which is more noticeable. There’s less black crush, but that’s because the whole screen is just a bit over-brightened. Overall, the local dimming performs well in Game Mode. However, it’s not the best implementation of local dimming.

We experienced a strange issue where text in the center of the screen causes the entire top half of the screen to turn on all of the dimming zones. Also, we checked for the reported discoloration issue but didn’t see anything. If you notice the same things, let us know.

Apparently this TV has an Automatic Brightness Limiter:

The Samsung 55QN90A has remarkable HDR brightness. Small highlights stand out the way they are expected to, but in SDR, large areas are less bright due to the aggressive ABL.

Perhaps the newer QN95B or QN90B might fare better and have significantly more local dimming zones?

3 Likes
#683

@MajorPainTheCactus With all my criticisms the qn90a this is still the best PC monitor I’ve had and it’s a consumer level TV.

@Cyber Even with everything turned off AutoDimming does nothing to the scenario I described but I do lose peak brightness. Perhaps it’s firmware, perhaps reviewers don’t get enough time to live with a monitor to discover it’s quirks. The C1 should have been knocked down several points by RTINGS’s in the PC Monitor section for it’s Auto Dimming that is also unable to be turned off. (I hear they do allow it to be toggled off on the C2.)

HDR is new to me, so I’m glad I went down this stupid rabbit hole. I learned a lot, I like my qn90a, and I look forward QD-OLED and how Megatron and other shaders will pop out those pixels.

4 Likes
#684

Yeah I’d love one! The specs sound amazing - it was a great idea to buy two of the best TV’s out there and compare them. Hmm now all I need to do is come up with some masterful plan to get it past her in doors - my children dont need shoes for six months.

2 Likes
#685

This is something that didn’t really bother me that much using my E6P in my HTPC. Maybe because I didn’t use it much for work I guess (but I do use my living room HTPC for PC stuff and gaming primarily) and because I accepted and understood why it was a part of the OLED experience.

To me it’s not as annoying as coarse Local Dimming making elements of the screen disappear like your mouse cursor or the hidden taskbar on an LED TV so it’s not universal as to how much this would bother all users.

Having the ability to switch it on or off is very useful.

#686

I don’t think QD OLED is going to work :worried:

image
image979×719 68.6 KB

Yep, that’s a pass for me. I’m not buying any display with a weird subpixel layout. I’ll wait for micro-LED or dual-layer LCD to become a thing.

2 Likes
#687

Is there a way to circumvent any of this with the service menus? Maybe ABL can be disabled?

2 Likes
#688

On the bright side, it should be pretty easy to do a nice shadow/dot mask, right? :slight_smile:

8 Likes
#689

You can turn of ABSL on the C1 using the service remote but say goodbye to your warranty.

That said I’m still tempted to do this as I think this is what was causing my issue with the black corruption when using RA’s BFI in HDR mode.

3 Likes
#690

What’s going on there? It would be terrible to render text onto as well right? Also by the looks of it half the screen is left dark - surely that’s going to have an effect on your overall brightness.

Hopefully this is just early tech problems that’ll get ironed out shortly.

2 Likes
#691

I seriously wouldn’t use retroarchs BFI - your screen should have support for blacklight strobing that will be better, brighter and more accurate as to what a CRT actually does, albeit someway off still. As for turning off ABSL you could try it as a test thing? Mind you I suppose that’ll still invalidate your warranty. :man_shrugging:

1 Like
#692

I don’t know - that looks like half a dot shadow pattern.

1 Like
#693

Dual layer is here in the Hisense U9DG.

Is that subpixel layout the same on the Sony A95K?

I was going to say that I read about turning off the ABL somewhere but I didn’t want to confuse this with turning off Auto Dimming.

Screenshot_20220320-132010_Chrome
Screenshot_20220320-132010_Chrome1080×2309 349 KB

2 Likes
#694

The Hisense U9DG apparently has some “serious issues with motion,” according to RTINGS. Hopefully this is just a first gen tech problem and improves as the tech develops.

Panasonic actually got there first with the Megacon, but that’s over $50,000.

1 Like
#695

Yeah, they were the first manufacturer I heard about who were developing the dual layer tech. The first product I saw was the Sony BVM-HX310 and then came the Hisense U9DG. Apparently there are a few other offering on the market like this one http://www.tvlogic.tv/new/M_Spec.asp?sidx=103 and this one here https://flandersscientific.com/XM311K/ but it seems as if the achilles heal of the tech might be high power consumption and poor thermal performance requiring special and possible even active cooling solutions. This plus the additional layers don’t bode well for aesthetics either.

https://www.eizoglobal.com/press/releases/2019/NR19_006.html

2 Likes
#696

Damn that’s a huge shame about the QD-OLED. I hope that’s not indicative of the technology as a whole and only that specific panel. I was really hoping to see a regular 4K flat version, but if they can’t do that with a tight RGB structure then it’s probably not worth it…

I really don’t want another LCD, but I’ve had my eye on this LG 32GQ950 since they mention it using an “A-TW polarizer” which “can help improve off-angle blacks and darker content” so if that actually ends up solving most of the IPS glow and general LCD shittiness that would be nice. If no good RGB-structured non-LCD displays show up in the next year I might have to go with that.

3 Likes
#697

You know LG also has some non-IPS VA LED/LCD models in their lineup if for some reason you want to stick with that brand. They’re usually in the odd sized models, like 50".

1 Like
#698

Looks like this is the best CRT simulation shader available currently. Really impressive work! I still use real CRTs, but the day that a panel meets all of these requirements:

  1. 60Hz single strobe/flicker options for 60Hz CRT-scan motion clarity for 60fps and lower content (ideally an actual rolling scan flicker rather than plain BFI).
  2. Top emission display tech.
  3. Sufficient full screen brightness capability to simulate CRT brightness levels even under the brightness reductions of shader-based blacked out pixels and flicker.
  4. High enough resolution (4K+?) for high TVL simulation shader details.
  5. Typical LCD-type sub-pixel structure.

Will be the day that I can stop using CRTs and rely on a shader like this. Will it ever happen? Either way it’s nice knowing that at least this part of the deal is pretty much ready to go.

4 Likes