I think @MajorPainTheCactus was replying to Jamirus’s post on the dotmask photos- 8k is probably right given the phosphor count per scanline.
2 Likes
Well I’ll still think we don’t need that much to play really close. Maybe it would the perfect thing, but until that happens… 4K looks really good 
2 Likes
Yeah I think dot mask is the only hold out for accurate mask emulation - one day though.
2 Likes
Browsing the https://crtdatabase.com/, lots of interesting info and often also pictures with games running there. Most not that close, but here a few that are:
https://crtdatabase.com/crts/barco/barco-gd-33
https://crtdatabase.com/crts/jvc/jvc-dt-v1700cg not only multiformat (does up to 1080i) it also uses an aperture grille mask.
https://crtdatabase.com/crts/jvc/jvc-tm-1400su 450 TVL slot. Seems similar to standard Amiga monitors, but slightly bigger, and no RGB.
10 Likes
900 TVL vs 600 TVL (both PVMs around 20 inches): save for reference!
https://www.instagram.com/stories/retrobigini/3075687353174494723/
3 Likes
It’s really astonishing to see how just slightly blurry photos can be mistaken for a CRT shader, even in 1080p.
4 Likes
Guys, please, see pictures 7 and 8, the ones with the orange text green and green,blue, white.
Maybe I’m late to the party, but It seems that there is the proof that bloom/halation happens before the eye there.
I say this because near the brightest areas of the picture you can see the metallic grid as subtle dark vertical lines that fade out as they get further away from the illuminated phosphors.
Is it possible that the first or second glass (between the tube and the eye) are reflecting back part of the light or what?
2 Likes
3 Likes
Firstly thanks for sharing the photos of your amazing cab. Are they all of the same cabinet? The last one is super clear but what game is it youre playing?
As to your halation/bloom Im not sure Im seeing any on the last image (the others being a little too blurred to see). Halation in my understanding is the glow that you see around bright areas - not the bright areas themselves. Bloom is created by the camera lens and isnt a real world thing - usually its just a simple graphics technique to provide a stylistic effect cheaply rather than simulate some real world lighting effect.
Youd need to get a fairly decent camera and adjust all the settings to rule in out certain visible effects that are coming from the display rather than your camera which is pointed at a highly emissive surface (which its usually not designed to do as its primary focus at least). If using a phone turn off all the effects etc by using raw/pro modes. What camera and settings are you using?
As for the fat scanlines that maybe a combination of signal (rf/composite/rgb etc), beam focus, TVL and quality of phosphors used. We’d need info on all of those things i.e TV make/model and signal and cabling etc.
1 Like
Yeah, all from the same cab, the last picture is from “jim power / amiga” and there i manually set the shutter speedtime (sorry for being not technical!) to a lower value so you see clearer phosphors without lens bloom/glow/clip effect,
What i was talking about is this:
You can see vertical stripes on the black area which in this cropped picture appears evident, but if you see the bigger one, you see that they are not present when there is no “light” nearby.
I suxpect those likes to be the metallic grid that hosts the phosphors and my theory is that this blooming/halation effect is actually illuminating them via the reflected light that doesn’t pass completely through the glass.
4 Likes
Yes ok I see what youre talking about - I was looking at the wrong photo. Ok so yes this is the halation we all know and love and yes I think everybody agrees its due to the reflected light. Do be careful though that this is what youre seeing with your naked eye and isnt being exaggerated by your camera.
We see this effect on all displays especially as they get brighter so its not a CRT specific thing - maybe you could argue because of the curved screen it appears in a slightly different way though.
The question Ive always posed is because this effect happens on all displays do you want to effectively double it up by adding it into a CRT shader. I suppose that’s personal choice but as youre not going to get rid of the light reflecting around your own screen why bother trying to add another layer of it in a faux manner by turning on lighting emitting sub pixels. I dont know I guess its not my thing. 
2 Likes
Because my dull lcd screen has no glass, just a plastic layer which stands really near the screen, while real cabs have another glass layer at about 30cm from the tube that I think gives wider halos.
2 Likes
If you dont see the effect on your lcd itll probably be because its dull or youve got it in a room/position that is brightly lit compared to your CRT. Your lcd will have another issue (much larger issue) if its backlit which will be light bleed from each element not being fully off and areas being lit up. This gets worse and worse as your brightness goes up and is probably worse than a crts at comparable brightness. Even my QD-OLED suffers from it when you have bright white on black in a dark room.
2 Likes
I made this shots with my mobile camera the best I could. These are made with auto ISO, and ISO 100 to compare, it’s on pro mode.
3 Likes
Not totally sure about your argument, i still think that the halo gets bigger as the glass moves away from the tube, but is not that critical after all 
edit:
I’ve to try to make a video while panning the camera to observe the halo position, if it stays relative to the tube, then you’re definitely right, if it moves relative to the outer glass and the camera position, then it is a matter of the light reflected by the outer glass 
edit2: halo seen in last shots made by @RetroGames4K suggests you’re right and it is a diffusion only effect rather than diffusion+reflection tho!
2 Likes
Itll be a bit of both diffusion and reflection - there will be imperfections in glass/plastic etc and several layers on all screens (lcd/oled/crt) to prevent glare, environment reflections etc and some of that light will bounce off the back and some will go off at oblique angles etc and bounce off other imperfections. What is unique to a crt is curvature but Im not sure how much that plays a part in what we see and is rather down to more imperfections of materials vs more modern materials and whether simulating it just adds to the mess that is brought in by your lcd/oled. But maybe simulating isnt the point.
1 Like
Oh gosh, yes, the curvature could play another part in the mix, never thought of it ahah.
1 Like
Maybe curvature isnt unique to crts as of course there are lcds and oleds with curved screens - I wonder how they behave in this respect