In fact the difference is not very marked, but I think it makes its contribution especially in combination with the SlotMask of Kokoaio. In particular it enriches the color and helps to apply a natural anti-aliasing. If you go around YouTube you will see many videos that show how the various systems, even the 128-bit ones, behave based on the type of video output used beyond the shader or the reference screen. However I think it then comes into play as a matter of taste. As for the issue of the impossibility of using NTSC and dedithering with Kokoaio I will not express an opinion simply because I have not looked into it in depth.
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I have to check, too visible dithering is not my favorite thing. Regarding kokoaio I like to play around with the available options in the given shaders presets. Unfortunately it clearly says either ntsc artifacts or dedithering. When one is on, the other one does not work.
I can hardly remember that conversation but to put it all to rest we probably need someone to do a thorough test of Blargg NTSC Filters with different PSX Cores and games.
I have heard that whether the Blargg filter preset works with PSX games depends on the colour format.
I have heard it depends on the PSX Core, (I know this is true in general though as BSNES doesn’t support the external Blargg Filter Presets up until the last time I tested but I think SNES9x does).
I used to use Beetle PSX (SW) and I couldn’t see any difference in the games I tested but in the @RetroCrisis video of my CRT-Royale preset pack which features my Custom Blargg Video Filter Presets, he showed perfect dedithering in Silent Hill when using the Video Filter Presets.
This shocked even me! When I asked him in the comments what core he was using, he said he always uses Beetle PSX (HW).
So maybe testing can be done with both 16 bit and 32 bit colour and stuff like that.
In general what I had been able to achieve using Blargg Video Filters seemed better in some ways than what I had seen using other NTSC Shaders around that time. Many of these shortcomings have been greatly improved since then, though some seem to still remain.
The main problem with the Blargg Video Filter Presets is that up to now we only have access to the SNES version for tweaking and creating external Filter Presets. Blargg made specific versions for different systems. That’s why they added “pseudo” to the preset names when they were added to RetroArch. For example the Genesis Video Filter Presets doesn’t use the Genesis specific version of Blargg, it uses the SNES filter like all the others. Most likely more accurate results in terms of mimicking the different console’s output behavior could be achieved if we had access to the other variants of Blargg NTSC Video Filter Presets as configurable video filters. Tweaking is also not very user friendly.
Hey @DariusG, you’ve been digging around inside Blargg Video Filters, would it be difficult to port some others, at least the Genesis one to Video Filter Format with preset support as has been done with the SNES Video Filter?
…and also PCE and I think NES too but I can’t remember the results of my testing off hand.
In this case it’s up to user preference but why can’t video filter presets be used for this usage scenario, they can help with whichever effect is disabled by koko-aio? Kokoaio might also provide a more convincing Rainbow effect as Blargg SNES video filters won’t do that, at least I wasn’t able to using them.
I find imgur to be a bit cumbersome to get a full quality image. With imgbb this is trivial.
If you like those, you should see the new filter presets in my CyberLab Custom Blargg NTSC Video Filter Presets Pack.
One thing I noticed, particularly with my CRT-Royale Turbo Duo Smooth Shader Preset is that if I combine it with a Blargg Video Filter Preset, it breaks the SuperXBR Smoothing. That was my first time prepending shaders and trying to build my own shader chain so there could be a different way of doing things which might have yielded better results but I even tried integrating the NTSC Adaptive Shader with CRT-Royale and Super-XBR and failed miserably, so you probably have that to thank for my continued work and refinement of those video filter presets.
So do spread the word, they’re right there and available to use and they provide a really high quality experience. There are also some nice gamma tweaks in there too courtesy Blargg and it definitely takes the edge off some of the untreated shader presets.
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Hi @Cyber, I will try it surely, also because I fell in love with the filters created by Blargg and I would like to study them more. Right now I’m playing with the Street Fighter Collection for PlayStation, and with Swanstation core and Kokoaio presets they seem to work perfectly, at least with this very specific scenario. Of course if Blargg has created specific filters for various systems, it would be fantastic to have them available to be able to apply them on the image, in case the user wants, before using a shader. Honestly it’s the only NTSC scenario that Blargg has that I’ve found good, also because I love the possibility of virtually choosing the type of video transmission I can use, a bit like if in addition to emulating the console I also emulate the cable and therefore what comes out.
I don’t know if you all saw this already but I think this belongs deserves checking out.
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Thanks very much in advance.
Excellent! I will revisit some testing at some point. Post some pics/screenshots.
Some 2D cores actually have the correct filters integrated in the Core Options but the travesty is that the settings are presets for the filters are hard codes and in my opinion the composite artifacts tend to be too strong.
You should see the 3rd Gen presets, which are Brightness/Gamma matched to be as close as possible to the original input signal, whereas the default SNES video filter preset, tends to darken the image a bit too much.
They’re also highly tweaked in the sharpness and artifacts department, delivering blending of dithering and pseudo transparencies without the blur.
They not only try to simulate differences in video inputs but also differences in console’s video output circuitry.
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Forgive my ignorance, but what would these third-generation filters be and where would they be located within RetroArch? In the next few days I’ll try other titles with Swanstation and will gladly share. Thanks a lot
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You can get them in my CyberLab CRT-Royale Death To Pixels Shader Preset Pack or my CyberLab Custom Blargg NTSC Video Filter Presets pack.
https://imgur.com/gallery/9LoW9M6
Hi @Cyber here are some more tests done with Garou Desentsu Special with the same conditions as the previous tests. Today I have to try your Blargg filters.
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I made those Blargg video filter presets that you’re already using by the way, just didn’t want to add the new ones to RetroArch unless there’s a demand for them because each iteration has its place and purpose in my opinion. I even found myself using the 2nd Gen Sega Genesis presets quite a bit.
I actually forgot I had them enabled and went about making some of the most awesome Shader Presets I had ever seen. ESWAT in particular looked so crisp chef’s kiss. Long after when I realized it was enabled I think I just renamed the preset with a note “For CyberLab Blargg…” then removed the video filter, then went about remaking my shader preset without it, using just the Guest Advances NTSC shader parameters alone.
I no longer use that previous preset more for technical reasons because I was going about making new presets and now because of the fact that I no longer use that TV but it remains one of my best looking Sega Genesis Preset combinations.
So what I’m saying is that I don’t consider any of the generations of video filter presets to be obsolete or superseded, they just give different looks. The latest gen might be the most refined and operates close to the limits of sharpness while maintaining dedithering and and a lot of time and work was spent matching back the brightness/Gamma but even with the previous ones I did tweaking and balancing of the sharpness vs dedithering and adjusted the brightness/Gamma.
I still like them, I kinda miss the look sometimes. In general, I usually have positive reactions when going back and using some of my older presets which might seem surprising so I’m glad I’ve worked to keep them around and functional rather than just discard and replace when the newest thing comes around.
Which is why I can release things like my latest Mega Bezel Reflection Shader HDR Ready presets and know that it’s still of a high standard despite using and “old” version of Mega Bezel Reflection Shader which relies on an “old” version of CRT-Guest-Advanced-NTSC.
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So @Cyber if I understood correctly, starting from the original Blargg filters designed for SNES, you extrapolated the “Custom” versions for other systems (the ones present by default on Retroarch) and then in a separate package you created the custom Blargg filters (third generation). If I understood correctly that’s how it went, and so a special thanks to you and your work. I’m loving Blargg, and I’m only sorry that apart from the versions modified by you (thanks again, I still have to try the third generation one but I’m already loving the second generation ones) there aren’t any other versions created by Blargg specifically for other consoles (maybe in the future). I think it would be fantastic if the versions available today (and maybe other new ones) with all the available variants (yours) were present by default inside RetroArch in the filters section for everyone. It would be really fantastic.
PS I was just trying out your filters, especially the various snes_turbo_duo_svideo_special edition ones, and I have to say you did a great job leaving the same dithering effect but making everything sharper. They work perfectly with Swanstation. A special mention for the really nice component filters (the previous ones were too blurry) of which I attach screenshots. At this point it’s just a matter of “nostalgic memory” to choose between the classic versions or yours, but it’s nice to have so many possibilities. Great job.
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Not exactly, my custom CyberLab Custom NTSC Video Filter Presets pack came out before they were integrated into RetroArch. They were first included in my CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels Shader Preset Pack, then after a change to the structure of our release packages by the Mega Bezel team, I split them into their own package which was a separate but mandatory download if a user wanted to enjoy the full benefit of my CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels Shader Preset Pack.
They were seen by other users who were impressed enough that they felt that they should be included in RetroArch by default so they were added.
I didn’t cease my development there and eventually I made several updates and added my 2nd gen filter presets for my package. Subsequently during the development of my CyberLab CRT-Royale Death To Pixels Shader Preset Pack, I worked hard on the 3rd generation of my Blargg NTSC Video Filter presets and these were included in my CRT-Royale shader preset pack.
Soon after that, I added them to my CyberLab Custom Blargg NTSC Video Filter Presets pack.
The idea of customizing the Blargg SNES NTSC Video Filter was one that I had wished was possible ever since I noticed how dark they used to make PCE games look. I think I had opened the presets before but I didn’t realize that you could edit the values right there until I saw a post by another user who had actually released a brightened version of the preset which he used for Sega Genesis. This was something I was looking for and I had just gotten the proof of concept that it was possible.
I tried that preset then I immediately started work on my own.
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@Cyber now everything is clear to me, and even clearer is your contribution and dedication to the cause of retrogaming for all. Thank you so much for everything, and in particular for the work done starting from Blargg’s SNES filters, and I also thank him for the initial work.
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As far as I remember I gave up on it after many days of testing. If memory serves me right NTSC artifact was barely visible in 2D games on Swanstation core. On Beetle PSX however I didn’t notice it at all. Same as in 3D games in both cases.
After your recommendations I started to play more with shaders that support “ntsc artifacts”. You can actually get some really cool effects with it.
Which preset is this? That’s a clean image right there.
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Just playing with parameters, I saved it locally here.
I think it looks clean because It’s a light slotmask obtained with cells height being 1/3 the height of the scanline.
For that reason, It works good for 240p content, but not so well when resolution increases.
Also, Hyllian’s ddt-xbr-lvl1 is used to 2x upscale.
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