Retro 4K Shader *highly recommended*

[Brainbin74]

I am an honest person and I like frankness. so I looked at your preset CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels.

so i’m french, we have access to full rgb preritel rvb. never any french TV can be so blurry in game; whether it’s the genesis, the super nes, the pc engine, the neo geo, none of these consoles look like the rendering you reproduced…

The NTSC standard : The NTSC (for National Television System Comitee) is an analog coding standard for color video. It began to be really used for the television in the United States of America in 1953, then it was exported to other countries (Canada, Japan, etc…). It is a 4:3 color image format on 525 lines, and therefore works in 60Hz. However, 8% of the bandwidth is used to adjust the synchronization between the receiver and the transmitter, which means that we only see an image of 640 columns by 480 lines (or a resolution of 640×480 if you prefer). This synchronization is necessary for the lines to appear in their proper place (and it will give you headaches if you try to use an upscaler for your Full HD TV). The image is displayed in 2 times: first we display the even lines, then the odd lines. This display mode is called “interlaced”. Hence the name 480i for this kind of signal.

The major defect of this standard was the very poor color fidelity with televisions before the 1990s. This problem was mainly caused by signal demodulation components in the TV sets that were not really up to date. This has earned it the nickname Never Twice (the) Same Color (never twice the same color in French).

The SECAM: France had its own color image encoding standard for television, the aptly named SECAM (SÉquentiel Couleur Avec Mémoire). I will not go into too much detail here, but I simply wanted to share with you the arrival of color on French television, presented by people who had the good taste to put on black and white suits for the occasion The evocation of this standard in this file is not a simple chauvinistic whim. It turns out that this French exception forced manufacturers to offer an RGB output on their consoles (from the SNES/Megadrive generation onwards), and thus to be able to market them in France. Before the advent of digital, RGB was in most cases the best possible video signal for game consoles.

The PAL standard: PAL (Phase Alternating Line), as its name does not indicate, is a standard of color encoding that is done this time on 625 lines, at 50Hz. It was developed in Germany after the NTSC, trying to correct the defects of the latter (including problems of color fidelity), and began to be used in the early 1960s. As for the NTSC, the display of the image is done in 2 times. And always in the same way as the NTSC, about 8% of the band is used for the synchronization, which makes us an image of a resolution of 768×576 (the 576i), better than for the NTSC therefore.

PAL et NTSC, explications

so for us french people nothing in retroarch looks like the rendering I see on my rvb peritel crt. that it is in50hz in pal60hz or ntsc60hz… we have better color, we don’t have blurred image, there is no parasite in the image, none of the defects that the preset shader tries to reproduce looks like what a european has experienced in his life… the only console that had bad quality is the nintendo nes in composite, and some n64 that are not full rvb… so here is my friend the truth, my crt produces such a quality of image that we can’t really explain it, nor take pictures of it… good job anyway my friend. 1/ what you do is to reproduce the defects of the printing and the time which passes which washes the newspapers of press, therefore the colors are false and not representative of the reality 2/ at the time when these pictures were taken the technology was not really up to date to film or photograph a working camera… so problems with lens, exposure, iso, etc… you add another layer that takes you away from reality… 3/ in the end nothing looks like a crt on the press magazines, neither the color, nor the gamma, nor the resolution so here is my opinion good work, but I do not play on a magazine but on a kvb trinitron crt in rvb peritel…

RETROARCH ON TV SONY CRT (WINDOWS 10)

[Silverbreaker]

do you judge the pictures or do you actually played the shader-compilation?

[Brainbin74]

and you can click on the image and zoom 2x 10x or more in twice to see the structure of the shader mask

what I mean. yes I looked carefully at the pictures… example of sonic the screenshoot you posted above … as an example my shader preset looks like this… on a 4koled panasonic ez950 tv… and that the oled is not rgb in structure but wrgb… so I downloaded your pack thanks, and I will test it to see it on my tv know that the screen of sonic that I post is even less sharp than my crt of reference… and that it is for that that I use the nvidia sharpening of nvidia has 100% to try to equal the sharpness of my crt… then see your screen of sonic, see the one that I post, and say to you that my crt is more sharp in what I mean to say to be brief… i like crt technology, and i still play on crt, and on pc i still have a crt vga mitsubishi pro920 diamondtron…( sony trinitron tube) easily recognizable because a black line on white background is visible, and it serves to have better color accuracy etc… and that i have an oled4ktv also for pc… then i’m around 2 two crt, one 15khz, one 30khz vga… and so to want to take the defects of ten crt tv consumer tv, to take only the defects ex: blur, problem of convergence, problem of geometry, haliation, bloom, in the shaders are there only to represent a defect, a malfunction of the tv… tube adjustment, moire, convergence, geometry, all that was done, and could be done by a technician… your bloom in the white letters?? are only a defect of the gdrive of a cathode ray tube… easily repairable by dismantling the crt and turning the gdrive ring behind the tube. so why would you want to play with a shader to see my games with all the possible and unimaginable defects at the same time??? do you think that in the old days we kept such a defective tube??? we hit it, we put a big slap on it, the image came back, then one week later the image was broken, then it ended up in the trash… that’s all I know… so everyone is free to play as he wants. and i don’t judge your pictures, i just notice, i don’t have to judge what people like or don’t like, i can just notice…

[Cyber]

@Brainbin74

good job anyway my friend. 1/ what you do is to reproduce the defects of the printing and the time which passes which washes the newspapers of press, therefore the colors are false and not representative of the reality 2/ at the time when these pictures were taken the technology was not really up to date to film or photograph a working camera… so problems with lens, exposure, iso, etc… you add another layer that takes you away from reality… 3/ in the end nothing looks like a crt on the press magazines, neither the color, nor the gamma, nor the resolution so here is my opinion good work, but I do not play on a magazine

Which shader are you talking about here? I don’t think my shader looks like a magazine nor did I try to get it to look like such. @Silverbreaker said that that’s the look he was going for with his shaders. Are you speaking about his shader presets, my shader presets or both? My presets look very different from his.

Thanks for the explanation. I can understand the difference in your experience and why you may not share the same feelings towards my shader presets or @Silverbreaker 's shader presets.

[Brainbin74]

I downloaded this here post here https://filehorst.de/downloadQueue.php?file=dhuAputh&fhuid=sT4rrC8xpfv3RYN3zBg6OvL5biyLeCKH

[Cyber]

@Brainbin74

I downloaded this here post here https://filehorst.de/downloadQueue.php?file=dhuAputh&fhuid=sT4rrC8xpfv3RYN3zBg6OvL5biyLeCKH

These aren’t my shader presets. My shader presets can be found here:

HSM Mega Bezel Reflection Shader! - Feedback and Updates

Just sharing my latest presets with the community. I’m quite satisfied with these settings for now. Pictures won’t tell the whole story as there’s a bit of subtle movement going on in these presets so feel free to try them out. CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels (Composite - Sharp) [Album] CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels (Composite - Sharp) [CyberLab Mega…

These are some screenshots from the latest update:

They might appear darker or different from the original full quality screenshots due to transcoding.

CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels (Arcade & Composite - Sharp) - 15-09-21

[Album] CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels (Arcade & Composite - Sharp) - 15-09-21

[Brainbin74]

yes, that’s what I thought… you want me to play in composite video? while my pc engine duo r was full rvb peritel ntsc60 hz… i never played gate of thuner or lord of thunder with the style of image you reproduced. because my consoles had full rvb peritel, no blur, no smudging colors, and no composite video artifacts votre shader en action

[Cyber]

@Brainbin74

yes, that’s what I thought… you want me to play in composite video? while my pc engine duo r was full rvb peritel ntsc60 hz… i never played gate of thuner or lord of thunder with the style of image you reproduced. because my consoles had full rvb peritel, no blur, no smudging colors, and no composite video artifacts votre shader en action

I understand you fully. I just thought you might have been confused or perhaps something might have been lost in translation because what you were describing near the end of your post seemed to refer to @Silverbreaker 's preset and not mine. You also posted a download link that wasn’t the link to my CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels presets. However, you referred to CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels near the beginning of your post. So I thought you might have been mixing them up.

[Brainbin74]

no problem, no confusion my friend, just that I was playing more like this. I think I have the same level as you, right?

[Brainbin74]

and so?? look at the hud of your screen and mine, there are the 3 primary colors R G B in 3 rings.

and you

I play in full rgb peritel, and you in composite. Dull colors, and definition without spikes, and sharpness. I respect the choice of people, no problem, but my burt is to try to have in 4k on the oled a quality that is closer to my tv crt sony kvb, because one day if it dies??? I will be left with the shader on an oled… and the majority of shaders to retroarch does not look like what I have, and what the french have had, nor the european etc… :le sourire:

I love the real time reflection on the edges of the frame, this is realistic so good job

so good game my friends have fun see you soon

[Cyber]

@Brainbin74

no problem, no confusion my friend, just that I was playing more like this. I think I have the same level as you, right?

My Shader preset doesn’t look like the screenshot you’re comparing yours to anymore though. Those are old screenshots you’re using of an early version of my presets. I posted the most recent screenshots and the link to the most recent shader. I doubt you tried them out but that’s okay, you’re entitled to do so.

I’m almost certain that your presets didn’t start off the way they are now so due to all of this your comparison is slighty unfair. For an accurate judgement and comparison please use only the latest version of my screenshots or better yet, you can try the shader preset if you really want to see for yourself and give fair and proper feedback.

I accept responsibility for not updating the screenshots that are in the original post. I have only been updating the shader presets but I have posted updated screenshots in posts after the original one with my presets.

Of course I don’t expect them to be as clear as yours but they are much closer to yours than the old, soft, early, work in progress screenshots you posted above.

Retro 4K Shader *highly recommended*

These aren’t my shader presets. My shader presets can be found here: These are some screenshots from the latest update: They might appear darker or different from the original full quality screenshots due to transcoding. CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels (Arcade & Composite - Sharp) - 15-09-21 [Album] CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels (Arcade & Composite - Sharp) - 15-09-21 …

@Brainbin74

and so?? look at the hud of your screen and mine, there are the 3 primary colors R G B in 3 rings.

The E is for Earthquake. Earth is represented by brown not red.

@Brainbin74

I love the real time reflection on the edges of the frame, this is realistic so good job

This is the great work of @HyperspaceMadness.

@Brainbin74

so good game my friends have fun see you soon

Not so fast.

CyberLab Mega Bezel Death To Pixels (Composite - Sharp) aka Me:

and you:

When playing games and doing comparisons always try to be fair.

[Brainbin74]

oh my friend, I hope I didn’t offend you, that’s not my goal at all. I have been playing with retroarch for about 10 years. android gpdxd emulation in 720p, and on panasonic plasma tv 1080p on pc (replaced plasma by oled4k) my tv crt sony trinitron 15khz with dynamic switch resolution crt switch res 15khz with an umsaa

then it’s been 10 years that I’m satisfied with different preset crt royal, crt lottes, zfast crt, kurozomi for 4k tv …

but i’m honest nothing makes me want to play on my oled tv… on the plasma it was not better except that the shader preset is more for 1080p 1440p than 4k… do we agree??? the 4k tvs nothing at all convincing… so i play myself on my crt tv, i don’t copy old memories… i used to play alex kidd back in the day on the master system…i would be unable to reproduce today what i have seen… so i prefer to compare directly the two games at the same time, on my crt, on my oled like that everything is clear for me

Why do you say that? Of course I don’t expect them to be as clear as yours but they are much closer to yours than the old, soft, early, work in progress screenshots you posted above.

so I don’t ask anyone to get closer to what I’m doing, I respect your choice, your opinions, and I love everyone who works in shader, because without more retrogaming for me on modern screen. So I love your work, I’m even admiring your work, and yes you’re right I haven’t tested your new preset yet, but why do you want to get closer to what I’ve shown you??? I’m not a reference to follow, I’m following my crt… in short you’re doing the same thing to me as you did, only you plug your shader in rvb peritel and hop no more preoblem for me with the composite…

and if i decide to do it myself today?? it’s been ten years… ten years i’ve been waiting for the famous crt shader that looks like any sony trinitron consumer tv, or even a panasonic tube, or even phillips, just basic consumer tv crt… and no shader looks like that, that’s all, that’s a fact. crt royal is aimed at pvm bvm, which is not at all the case of 99% of european users, who used to buy a bvm to watch tv in the living room??? my neighbor upstairs has a bvm and doesn’t look anything like my crt tv consumer sony trinitron… so bravo to you my friend i promise to test to shader as soon as i have the motivation, because i’m myself in it for more than a month… and if i get my head out of the shader, i’m not going to dive into another one. but it will be done and i’ll report back to you my friend count me in excuse me i’m french…

[Cyber]

@Brainbin74

but why do you want to get closer to what I’ve shown you??? I’m not a reference to follow, I’m following my crt… in short you’re doing the same thing to me as you did, only you plug your shader in rvb peritel and hop no more preoblem for me with the composite…

I’m not trying to get closer to your shader presets. I have been doing my thing and you have been doing yours. I invited you to take a look at it. Based on your response, I realized that there must have been a mistake somewhere because what you described was not what I thought you would have evaluated. When you showed the screenshots, I realized what had happened.

I am not offended in anyway. I just thought things went into a direction of a fun banter. I had to correct the misunderstanding because I don’t want my shader presets to be misrepresented. The original spirit was just one of sharing and appreciating another’s work. When I originally shared, I had no idea that you were accustomed to SECAM and I value your explanation and experience but I know that my shader presets weren’t as bad and blurry as you had described so that made me realize that something was off somewhere.

I’ve been a longtime user of RetroArch myself. Nice to meet you.

[Brainbin74]

no problem my friend, and nice to meet you too. it’s all of us users who make the possibility to play retro games on modern tvs progress in the right direction. but i didn’t program my preset, i don’t have that pretention, just a long time user, who took the misc.slangp preset from retroarch, because it’s very versatile, and all the possible settings 3 gammas, gamma elecrton, beam width overscan x and y that’s all. I just tweaked the values to my liking… even had to edit the shader file… because the other one for example locks at 340 triad minimum… but in 4k it doesn’t look like a crt, it’s blurry… while I for example want the value 160… the shader proposes me triads min 340 > 1920… the right value for genesis is 160… that’s all… far from the vector mathematics of the shader creation… I only make a preset on a shader available to all in retroarch.

[Cyber]

@Brainbin74

Why do you say that? Of course I don’t expect them to be as clear as yours but they are much closer to yours than the old, soft, early, work in progress screenshots you posted above.

I said this because of the way you were describing the clarity, qualities and advantages of RGB/SECAM and your preset over NTSC, especially composite video and also my old, early, work in progress preset when I knew that my current presets looked much sharper, detailed and not smeared. However, I knew that my presets had added noise, rolling scanlines and other composite “additives/enhancements” that wouldn’t have been present in your presets, not to mention the fact that I used ScaleFX for upscaling and that can also introduce artifacts that may not be faithful to an original crt image.

@Brainbin74

i didn’t program my preset,

I didn’t program my presets either. These 2 I currently use are based on @HyperspaceMadness 's New-pixie-clone-smoothed-rolling-scanlines preset which I tweaked extensively to my liking.

@Brainbin74

I only make a preset on a shader available to all in retroarch.

I too would like to have my shader presets available to all.

[Silverbreaker]

you guys are driven by taste in your taste wars… omg - its just how I prefer my shaders… and please just play the shader first and dont just judge the pictures. thx

[Nesguy]

I think they all kinda fall apart once you’re actually playing a game in fullscreen mode. Screen door effect ruins masks

Screenshots are not an accurate representation of what these things look like IRL in fullscreen mode.

[Cyber]

@Nesguy

I think they all kinda fall apart once you’re actually playing a game in fullscreen mode. Screen door effect ruins masks

Wouldn’t that be dependent on the settings of the mask effect and the specifications of the screen though?

@Nesguy

Screenshots are not an accurate representation of what these things look like IRL in fullscreen mode.

While that’s true that they aren’t a 100% accurate representation, they can still be used for comparing certain things, for example differences in sharpness or aliasing between between presets and also to provide previews of the shader presets.

[Cyber]

@Silverbreaker

you guys are driven by taste in your taste wars… omg

This was just a minor misunderstanding because an old an outdated screenshot was used to make a comparison between 2 presets.

@Silverbreaker

• its just how I prefer my shaders… and please just play the shader first and dont just judge the pictures.

Of course, I understand and totally agree but once you put your stuff out there people are going to start giving their opinions on them and not everyone is going to actually take the time to test first.