Sony Megatron Colour Video Monitor

RetroArch Additions Shaders
#657

I’m thinking of more of a macro shot. Similar to what’s in the now famous Filthy Pants Blog article or RTINGS reviews.

The pure white might just make everything clearer. We can also probably get some variety in terms of HDR mode off vs on to see if there’s any variance in behaviour.

I’m seeing some interesting differences between the phosphor positioning in these two pictures. Compare the gap between the top of Link’s eyes as well as the Gold rectangular border around the floor/rug just below Link.

On the Samsung you can see individual Red/Orange and Yellow phosphor stripes showing differences in convergence, while on the LG these same phosphors appear to precisely vertically overlap and blend.

You can also see it in green of Link’s hat. The Samsung seems to have different convergence vs the LG.

Screenshot_20220318-052338_Chrome
Screenshot_20220318-052338_Chrome1080×2309 953 KB

Screenshot_20220318-052504_Chrome
Screenshot_20220318-052504_Chrome1080×2309 1.03 MB

Screenshot_20220318-052657_Chrome
Screenshot_20220318-052657_Chrome1080×2309 850 KB

Screenshot_20220318-052715_Chrome
Screenshot_20220318-052715_Chrome1080×2309 954 KB

In my opinion the LG might be closer to that “analog” roll-off/blending/glowing of the original CRT image than the Samsung.

It would be interesting to see the Sonic Waterfall comparison again using these settings on the LG C1.

1 Like
#658

Dude it looks like there is nothing wrong with the C1.

Have no tests on WRGB displays been actually performed and it was just assumed it would look wrong?

2 Likes
#659

No there were pictures above that were very kindly taken by @c9f5fdda06 and added in this post above:

HOWEVER I’ve just noticed I must have miss read the post! The first shot is not of my shader it’s of ‘HSM Glass’ or something and that was the image I was basing my view that it’s a mess up close. I don’t know how I managed that - the two pictures of my shader are fine (if somewhat dated compared to current).

All this time and I’d being deriding WOLEDs based on a CRT shader blurring the hell out of the image. :rofl: :man_facepalming: :rofl: Oh well you live and learn…

Screenshot_20220318-113408
Screenshot_20220318-1134081080×2376 1.49 MB
Screenshot_20220318-113547
Screenshot_20220318-1135471080×2376 1.31 MB
Screenshot_20220318-113622
Screenshot_20220318-1136221080×2376 1.58 MB

I think I was thinking about the first image (which is HSM Glass not Megatron) but maybe there was an earlier one - some posts now have out of date links. :man_shrugging:

3 Likes
#660

Until the image problems are ironed out in the Samsung I think most detailed comparisons are off the table sadly.

1 Like
#661

Well not to be that guy, but you can still see the white subpixel is being activated in the whites. Instead of distinct RGB phosphors in the whites you get a rainbow. The greens look all wrong. I stand by my original statement. Higher quality macro shots will reveal even more problems.

It’s not hard to understand why.

At the subpixel level, what’s happening?

RGBW

Magenta - Green:

RxBWxGxWRxBWxGxW

Look at the whites in @MajorPainTheCactus shots throughout the thread, then look at the whites in the OLED shot. There’s a pretty clear difference. If you can’t see distinct RGB phosphors in the whites, then it isn’t working right.

I know we all really want the OLED to work, but I feel like people are letting wishful thinking cloud their judgment.

Here’s the actual subpixel structure of the C1. You can see it’s not just a problem with the white subpixel- the subpixels are all kind of wonky and different shapes.

image
image1000×562 197 KB

1 Like
#662

That’s precisely the problem, as the phosphors themselves should never overlap or blend.

The Samsung has some issues too, though.

2 Likes
#663

On the other hand though this is all subjective on what looks convincing to people.

Like I said I’m 8 feet back from my TV so I wouldn’t notice this stuff.

2 Likes
#664

Not in this thread, it isn’t.

And your reply really begs the question - would the BW aperture on an OLED look “just as good” at normal viewing distances as the subpixel mask on an OLED? My money’s on the BW aperture grille for OLED.

2 Likes
#665

In this thread ok - you guys are focusing on 100% accuracy but the talk of alienating OLEDS in using this preset should be in the end users eyes still.

No offense but sometimes I think you take this stuff too seriously.

2 Likes
#666

True, I wonder if they might line up differently if deconvergence is adjusted?

Parts of some phosphors also overlap in the Samsung photos. This can easily be seen in the green in Link’s hat as well. It’s just that on the LG OLED some adjacent phosphors seem to be 100% overlapped i.e. superimposed.

Could it be other factors at play here? Maybe photography interfering again?

2 Likes
#667

Up close I can tell the RGB replication of a CRT on the C1 OLED is imperfect. How the phosphorus trail off can be uneven. At distance or in motion it’s very hard to see but it’s there. I think Megatron works with WOled but isn’t perfect or supported.

I think I’m sticking with my QN90a and returning the C1. Auto dimming on the C1 when used as a computer monitor is very annoying. (I’m addicted to the crazy brightness of the 90a.) From some reason my work 2019 macbook pro doesn’t like the LG as much as the QN90A. C1 is better in games and movies but not significantly so to be worthy of an upgrade.

QD OLED seems like a nice step up in display tech. The subpixels are a strange hexagonal layout so it might fair even worse with something like Megatron.

4 Likes
#668

So I’m not going to argue that an WOLED is better or the same as a IPS LCD in its accuracy of simulating CRT phosphor triads or more generally rendering of sub pixel aliased text and the many other ways sub pixels are used and abused. They just arent.

However what we’re really comparing this shader to is the rest of the shaders running on an LG C1 or any other WOLED. From that perspective I think its still one of the best at accurately simulating an actual CRT.

I mean if you do your subpixel layout for anything else its still further away from represeting an aperture grille (or any other screen type?) than what the Sony Megatron is doing, especially if the shader has done a load of blurring of the image beforehand etc.

Take the BW mask as far as I understand its doing this:

RGBWXXXX or RGBWRGBWXXXX or RGBWRGBWRGBWXXXX etc with an optional scaler on the XXXX element is it not?

It might give more even spacing but then I’d argue its not really doing anything like a real CRT does when not showing a primary colour which will be most of the time.

As in what you take with one hand you give away with the other.

The same can be argued for and against WOLED’s vs IPS LCD etc they all have pros and cons to them be that darker darks, better response times, brighter highlights etc.

I think the point here is yes the display is inherently not as good as a LCD in this respect but in my opinion the Sony Megatron is still one of the best options given the above image.

:man_shrugging:

5 Likes
#669

It’s also really couldn’t hurt to just try the BW mask on the OLED, it can look very nice at very close but less than subpixel distances, IMO.

And to clarify: I’m not saying the above image looks bad, just that the Megatron shader really shines on an RGB LCD. The shots you’ve posted are the best I’ve seen.

2 Likes
#670

It certainly would be nice if we could see this before @BendBombBoom returns his C1 even if just as a data collection exercise. I’m curious to see which I would prefer between the two when compared side by side.

2 Likes
#672

Is it possible to add a B&W slot mask?

#673

Earlier on today I added the BW mask as it was pretty trivial to do and doesn’t add any cost to the shader. Once I upload it you’ll be able to select it by choosing 3.0 as the ‘CRT Type’. This will kind of be a hidden option as I wont label the option.

Below are the screenshots of the same scene on my Sony 2730 PVM and Sony Megatron with the various masks (see labels). I find myself on the very rare occasion of disagreeing with @Nesguy however this is still an unfair comparison as I’m using an LCD and I’m sure I’ll be told I’ve missed something such is my experience in this field! :slightly_smiling_face:

However I do feel the downsides to the BW mask will never make up for irregular pattern caused on a WOLED. At the end of the day the BW will be irregular as well in the highlights vs lowlights.

The problems are numerous but mainly the resolution is too high for the 2 pixel version that probably works best and in that the black is far too wide compared to the colour elements. In the 3 and 4 pixel masks all the individual phosphors effectively sit on top of one another.

This gives a distinctly different look to an actual CRT that you would notice at a distance.

As always though this is a subjective and some people may prefer it. As such and as I’ve already said I’ll keep the option but as a hidden option.

As always let me know what you think!

Sony 2730 PVM (600 TVL)

Screenshot_20220319-200613
Screenshot_20220319-2006131080×2376 2.01 MB

Sony Megatron Default Mask (4 pixel RGBX - 600TVL)

Screenshot_20220319-204423
Screenshot_20220319-2044231080×2376 2.48 MB

Sony Megatron Black White Mask 0 (2 pixel - WX - 1000TVL)

Screenshot_20220319-200836
Screenshot_20220319-2008361080×2376 2.27 MB

Sony Megatron Black White Mask 1 (3 pixel - WWX - 800TVL)

Screenshot_20220319-200857
Screenshot_20220319-2008571080×2376 2.37 MB

Sony Megatron Black White Mask 1 (4 pixel - WWWX - 600TVL)

Screenshot_20220319-200917
Screenshot_20220319-2009171080×2376 2.27 MB

All Photos: OnePlus 8 Pro Camera: Pro Mode, ISO 200, WB 6500K, Aperture Speed 1/60, Auto Focus, 48MPixel JPEG.

5 Likes
#674

I haven’t had a chance to look into many of these posts however I want to make it clear that yes the first picture is HSM/ guest and the subsequent pics are your shader. Sorry but I’m busy playing Elden Ring :joy:

3 Likes
#675

You really got those pics to line up perfectly :open_mouth:

1 Like
#676

Yeah I feel like only the 2px wide version looks decent, at least on that display. The others are awkward, for sure.

What about BBWW? Just trying to exhaust all the options here.

1 Like
#677

Some of them look awkward on an RGB LCD, right? Isn’t it possible that they might look better on a WBGR WOLED display?

2 Likes